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windows7 looks too much like vista

Discussion in 'Windows Vista' started by Adam Albright, Apr 12, 2009.

  1. +Bob+

    +Bob+ Guest

    On Tue, 14 Apr 2009 11:04:44 -0400, "RalfG" <itsnotme@ladeda.deda>
    wrote:
    <!--coloro:blue--><span style="color:blue <!--/coloro-->
    >Only some hardware that was abandoned by the respective
    >MF's in Vista doesn't work in Win7 either... Not MS's responsibility. <!--colorc--><!--/colorc-->

    If you built a new model of vehicle that required every trailer
    manufacturer to redesign its hitches to fit, whose responsibility
    would it be for the *compatibility problem* ?
    <!--coloro:blue--><span style="color:blue <!--/coloro-->
    > There
    >are as many complaints about any OS as there are crap computers, defunct
    >peripherals and crappy 3rd party software installs out there, <!--colorc--><!--/colorc-->

    I see... so the fact that all that "crap" works fine with XP or even
    Vista is not relevant.
    <!--coloro:blue--><span style="color:blue <!--/coloro-->
    >there is a seemingly infinite variety
    >of tasks that other people do with their computers that I'd never try.<!--colorc--><!--/colorc-->

    And that would make your testing more or less valid?
     
  2. Muad'Dib

    Muad'Dib Guest

    RingBuster wrote:<!--coloro:blue--><span style="color:blue <!--/coloro-->
    > Muad'Dib wrote:<!--coloro:green--><span style="color:green <!--/coloro-->
    >> Oldfart wrote:<!--coloro:darkred--><span style="color:darkred <!--/coloro-->
    >>>
    >>>
    >>> pupick wrote:
    >>>> Windows 7 beta is another Microsoft Edsel.
    >>>> It looks and feels like Vista with a slightly different GUI and
    >>>> possibly faster disc access.
    >>>> Microsoft claims that Vista drivers will work under Win 7: I can
    >>>> personally assure you this is not true for the Win 7 64 bit public
    >>>> beta--nothing could be further from the truth.
    >>>
    >>> That's a load of either BS or ignorance. I've been running Win7 32
    >>> and 64 bit versions of build 7000, the official beta release, since
    >>> 16 January and have had *no* glitches of any kind with drivers.
    >>> During installation they installed drivers for *all* of my devices,
    >>> including a ten year old HP printer, and everything works just fine.
    >>>
    >>> My guess is that you are one of those people too stupid to own a
    >>> computer!
    >>>
    >>><!--colorc--><!--/colorc-->
    >>
    >> Umm.. I call at least a little BS on that. NO drivers included for an
    >> HP Laserjet 4L buddy but is included in Vista, and the one provided by
    >> HP prints garbage in Win 7. Further, Control Panel crashes Windows
    >> Explorer randomly on my machine. Haven't had the time to T-shoot it.
    >> I'm NOT the only person to be having problems.. Go here,
    >>
    >> ,search around and see/read the MANY complaints/problems. Further, the
    >> dumb OS can't even find my print server. ..A not so old Hawking print
    >> server. Get real, Win 7 isn't much better about hardware than Vista
    >> was/is. It couldn't even come up with a real sound driver for my
    >> almost three year old HP. It used a "generic" driver. (It's a Realtech
    >> HD) I had to use a Vista driver for it. ..So please, try to keep from
    >> "candy-coating" your beloved Microsoft OS. While it has it's good
    >> points in my testing, it also has problems.. Everyone act surprised..
    >> And the "too stupid to own a computer" excuse is not only OLD, but
    >> just that, STUPID. A person should not have to have a degree in
    >> computer science to use one! Please upgrade your thinking to the 21st
    >> century before making such a statement.
    >><!--colorc--><!--/colorc-->
    >
    > As usual with anything, if you can't drive, then get out from behind the
    > wheel.<!--colorc--><!--/colorc-->

    I'm quite capable of dealing with Windows problems when I get the time
    to deal with it. Unlike what it appears others here don't have, I have a
    life, so do the computer bit in what little spare time I have for it.

    My point is that when MS or any OS suppler touts an EASIER TO USE,
    better, recognizes lots more hardware, etc etc etc, who do you think
    they are catering to? Buzzzz, nope not the geeks, the GENERAL user.
    ...But when the general user gets hold of it and has more trouble than
    they should, they are to blame and labeled "stupid?" Apparently everyone
    on earth should know, and be able to handle every technology on earth? I
    don't think so.

    ...Earth to that sort of thinkers, you know it isn't possible so get off
    it. ..And all of you can get off your elitist mountain any time, and
    join the rest of civilization. ..AND HELP those that need it rather than
    belittle and criticize them. Oh, oops, excluding Trolls, for them, climb
    out from under that bridge and/or sludge, (Mama's basement?), and join
    the rest of civilization. <Sigh> like that will happen. lol

    G'day
     
  3. Muad'Dib

    Muad'Dib Guest

    RingBuster wrote:<!--coloro:blue--><span style="color:blue <!--/coloro-->
    > Muad'Dib wrote:<!--coloro:green--><span style="color:green <!--/coloro-->
    >> Oldfart wrote:<!--coloro:darkred--><span style="color:darkred <!--/coloro-->
    >>>
    >>>
    >>> pupick wrote:
    >>>> Windows 7 beta is another Microsoft Edsel.
    >>>> It looks and feels like Vista with a slightly different GUI and
    >>>> possibly faster disc access.
    >>>> Microsoft claims that Vista drivers will work under Win 7: I can
    >>>> personally assure you this is not true for the Win 7 64 bit public
    >>>> beta--nothing could be further from the truth.
    >>>
    >>> That's a load of either BS or ignorance. I've been running Win7 32
    >>> and 64 bit versions of build 7000, the official beta release, since
    >>> 16 January and have had *no* glitches of any kind with drivers.
    >>> During installation they installed drivers for *all* of my devices,
    >>> including a ten year old HP printer, and everything works just fine.
    >>>
    >>> My guess is that you are one of those people too stupid to own a
    >>> computer!
    >>>
    >>><!--colorc--><!--/colorc-->
    >>
    >> Umm.. I call at least a little BS on that. NO drivers included for an
    >> HP Laserjet 4L buddy but is included in Vista, and the one provided by
    >> HP prints garbage in Win 7. Further, Control Panel crashes Windows
    >> Explorer randomly on my machine. Haven't had the time to T-shoot it.
    >> I'm NOT the only person to be having problems.. Go here,
    >>
    >> ,search around and see/read the MANY complaints/problems. Further, the
    >> dumb OS can't even find my print server. ..A not so old Hawking print
    >> server. Get real, Win 7 isn't much better about hardware than Vista
    >> was/is. It couldn't even come up with a real sound driver for my
    >> almost three year old HP. It used a "generic" driver. (It's a Realtech
    >> HD) I had to use a Vista driver for it. ..So please, try to keep from
    >> "candy-coating" your beloved Microsoft OS. While it has it's good
    >> points in my testing, it also has problems.. Everyone act surprised..
    >> And the "too stupid to own a computer" excuse is not only OLD, but
    >> just that, STUPID. A person should not have to have a degree in
    >> computer science to use one! Please upgrade your thinking to the 21st
    >> century before making such a statement.
    >><!--colorc--><!--/colorc-->
    >
    > As usual with anything, if you can't drive, then get out from behind the
    > wheel.<!--colorc--><!--/colorc-->

    I'm quite capable of dealing with Windows problems when I get the time
    to deal with it. Unlike what it appears others here don't have, I have a
    life, so do the computer bit in what little spare time I have for it.

    My point is that when MS or any OS suppler touts an EASIER TO USE,
    better, recognizes lots more hardware, etc etc etc, who do you think
    they are catering to? Buzzzz, nope not the geeks, the GENERAL user.
    ...But when the general user gets hold of it and has more trouble than
    they should, they are to blame and labeled "stupid?" Apparently everyone
    on earth should know, and be able to handle every technology on earth? I
    don't think so.

    ...Earth to that sort of thinkers, you know it isn't possible so get off
    it. ..And all of you can get off your elitist mountain any time, and
    join the rest of civilization. ..AND HELP those that need it rather than
    belittle and criticize them. Oh, oops, excluding Trolls, for them, climb
    out from under that bridge and/or sludge, (Mama's basement?), and join
    the rest of civilization. <Sigh> like that will happen. lol

    G'day
     
  4. RingBuster

    RingBuster Guest

    Muad'Dib wrote:<!--coloro:blue--><span style="color:blue <!--/coloro-->
    > RingBuster wrote:<!--coloro:green--><span style="color:green <!--/coloro-->
    >> Muad'Dib wrote:<!--coloro:darkred--><span style="color:darkred <!--/coloro-->
    >>> Oldfart wrote:
    >>>>
    >>>>
    >>>> pupick wrote:
    >>>>> Windows 7 beta is another Microsoft Edsel.
    >>>>> It looks and feels like Vista with a slightly different GUI and
    >>>>> possibly faster disc access.
    >>>>> Microsoft claims that Vista drivers will work under Win 7: I can
    >>>>> personally assure you this is not true for the Win 7 64 bit public
    >>>>> beta--nothing could be further from the truth.
    >>>>
    >>>> That's a load of either BS or ignorance. I've been running Win7 32
    >>>> and 64 bit versions of build 7000, the official beta release, since
    >>>> 16 January and have had *no* glitches of any kind with drivers.
    >>>> During installation they installed drivers for *all* of my devices,
    >>>> including a ten year old HP printer, and everything works just fine.
    >>>>
    >>>> My guess is that you are one of those people too stupid to own a
    >>>> computer!
    >>>>
    >>>>
    >>>
    >>> Umm.. I call at least a little BS on that. NO drivers included for an
    >>> HP Laserjet 4L buddy but is included in Vista, and the one provided
    >>> by HP prints garbage in Win 7. Further, Control Panel crashes Windows
    >>> Explorer randomly on my machine. Haven't had the time to T-shoot it.
    >>> I'm NOT the only person to be having problems.. Go here,
    >>>
    >>> ,search around and see/read the MANY complaints/problems. Further,
    >>> the dumb OS can't even find my print server. ..A not so old Hawking
    >>> print server. Get real, Win 7 isn't much better about hardware than
    >>> Vista was/is. It couldn't even come up with a real sound driver for
    >>> my almost three year old HP. It used a "generic" driver. (It's a
    >>> Realtech HD) I had to use a Vista driver for it. ..So please, try to
    >>> keep from "candy-coating" your beloved Microsoft OS. While it has
    >>> it's good points in my testing, it also has problems.. Everyone act
    >>> surprised.. And the "too stupid to own a computer" excuse is not
    >>> only OLD, but just that, STUPID. A person should not have to have a
    >>> degree in computer science to use one! Please upgrade your thinking
    >>> to the 21st century before making such a statement.
    >>><!--colorc--><!--/colorc-->
    >>
    >> As usual with anything, if you can't drive, then get out from behind
    >> the wheel.<!--colorc--><!--/colorc-->
    >
    > I'm quite capable of dealing with Windows problems when I get the time
    > to deal with it. Unlike what it appears others here don't have, I have a
    > life, so do the computer bit in what little spare time I have for it.
    >
    > My point is that when MS or any OS suppler touts an EASIER TO USE,
    > better, recognizes lots more hardware, etc etc etc, who do you think
    > they are catering to? Buzzzz, nope not the geeks, the GENERAL user.
    > ..But when the general user gets hold of it and has more trouble than
    > they should, they are to blame and labeled "stupid?" Apparently everyone
    > on earth should know, and be able to handle every technology on earth? I
    > don't think so.
    >
    > ..Earth to that sort of thinkers, you know it isn't possible so get off
    > it. ..And all of you can get off your elitist mountain any time, and
    > join the rest of civilization. ..AND HELP those that need it rather than
    > belittle and criticize them. Oh, oops, excluding Trolls, for them, climb
    > out from under that bridge and/or sludge, (Mama's basement?), and join
    > the rest of civilization. <Sigh> like that will happen. lol
    >
    > G'day<!--colorc--><!--/colorc-->

    Who do you think you are talking too? I help more people in one week in
    various NG(s) than you'll do in a year.

    And if you think this is bad, then I suggest you step into one the high
    and mighty Linux's NG(s) where the will tear you a part for even asking
    a simple question.
     
  5. Muad'Dib

    Muad'Dib Guest

    RingBuster wrote:<!--coloro:blue--><span style="color:blue <!--/coloro-->
    > Muad'Dib wrote:<!--coloro:green--><span style="color:green <!--/coloro-->
    >> RingBuster wrote:<!--coloro:darkred--><span style="color:darkred <!--/coloro-->
    >>> Muad'Dib wrote:
    >>>> Oldfart wrote:
    >>>>>
    >>>>>
    >>>>> pupick wrote:
    >>>>>> Windows 7 beta is another Microsoft Edsel.
    >>>>>> It looks and feels like Vista with a slightly different GUI and
    >>>>>> possibly faster disc access.
    >>>>>> Microsoft claims that Vista drivers will work under Win 7: I can
    >>>>>> personally assure you this is not true for the Win 7 64 bit public
    >>>>>> beta--nothing could be further from the truth.
    >>>>>
    >>>>> That's a load of either BS or ignorance. I've been running Win7 32
    >>>>> and 64 bit versions of build 7000, the official beta release, since
    >>>>> 16 January and have had *no* glitches of any kind with drivers.
    >>>>> During installation they installed drivers for *all* of my devices,
    >>>>> including a ten year old HP printer, and everything works just fine.
    >>>>>
    >>>>> My guess is that you are one of those people too stupid to own a
    >>>>> computer!
    >>>>>
    >>>>>
    >>>>
    >>>> Umm.. I call at least a little BS on that. NO drivers included for
    >>>> an HP Laserjet 4L buddy but is included in Vista, and the one
    >>>> provided by HP prints garbage in Win 7. Further, Control Panel
    >>>> crashes Windows Explorer randomly on my machine. Haven't had the
    >>>> time to T-shoot it. I'm NOT the only person to be having problems..
    >>>> Go here,
    >>>>
    >>>> ,search around and see/read the MANY complaints/problems. Further,
    >>>> the dumb OS can't even find my print server. ..A not so old Hawking
    >>>> print server. Get real, Win 7 isn't much better about hardware than
    >>>> Vista was/is. It couldn't even come up with a real sound driver for
    >>>> my almost three year old HP. It used a "generic" driver. (It's a
    >>>> Realtech HD) I had to use a Vista driver for it. ..So please, try to
    >>>> keep from "candy-coating" your beloved Microsoft OS. While it has
    >>>> it's good points in my testing, it also has problems.. Everyone act
    >>>> surprised.. And the "too stupid to own a computer" excuse is not
    >>>> only OLD, but just that, STUPID. A person should not have to have a
    >>>> degree in computer science to use one! Please upgrade your thinking
    >>>> to the 21st century before making such a statement.
    >>>>
    >>>
    >>> As usual with anything, if you can't drive, then get out from behind
    >>> the wheel.<!--colorc--><!--/colorc-->
    >>
    >> I'm quite capable of dealing with Windows problems when I get the time
    >> to deal with it. Unlike what it appears others here don't have, I have
    >> a life, so do the computer bit in what little spare time I have for it.
    >>
    >> My point is that when MS or any OS suppler touts an EASIER TO USE,
    >> better, recognizes lots more hardware, etc etc etc, who do you think
    >> they are catering to? Buzzzz, nope not the geeks, the GENERAL user.
    >> ..But when the general user gets hold of it and has more trouble than
    >> they should, they are to blame and labeled "stupid?" Apparently
    >> everyone on earth should know, and be able to handle every technology
    >> on earth? I don't think so.
    >>
    >> ..Earth to that sort of thinkers, you know it isn't possible so get
    >> off it. ..And all of you can get off your elitist mountain any time,
    >> and join the rest of civilization. ..AND HELP those that need it
    >> rather than belittle and criticize them. Oh, oops, excluding Trolls,
    >> for them, climb out from under that bridge and/or sludge, (Mama's
    >> basement?), and join the rest of civilization. <Sigh> like that will
    >> happen. lol
    >>
    >> G'day<!--colorc--><!--/colorc-->
    >
    > Who do you think you are talking too? I help more people in one week in
    > various NG(s) than you'll do in a year.<!--colorc--><!--/colorc-->

    Dude, although my post was in reply to you, I was speaking generally to
    whomever passes by to read it, so wasn't necessarily pointed at you
    directly.. BUT, if the shoe fits.. Further, you have NO idea where I go,
    and what names I use else ware making it impossible for you to determine
    how much more or less you do than I. I do notice you spend more time
    stalking and hounding your favorite pray than anything else, at least in
    here. Furthermore, I never stated I help people here, so where did that
    come from anyway? I'm saying to those here who put down people who know
    less than them, to get off their high horse and help, teach, and quit
    being jerks to make themselves feel more important/smarter.
    <!--coloro:blue--><span style="color:blue <!--/coloro-->
    > And if you think this is bad, then I suggest you step into one the high
    > and mighty Linux's NG(s) where the will tear you a part for even asking
    > a simple question.<!--colorc--><!--/colorc-->

    LOL Oh, I have been there and other Linux NGs alright, and yes, there
    are some extreme, snotty, self centered, self important, elitists. They
    are found everywhere, but that doesn't make it ok for here or anywhere
    else. Those types deserve every criticism they get, for they dish out
    plenty themselves. It will never go away, but occasionally I finally get
    fed up seeing it and make a comment. It won't really make a difference,
    but I feel better. lol

    G'day
     
  6. Muad'Dib

    Muad'Dib Guest

    +Bob+ wrote:<!--coloro:blue--><span style="color:blue <!--/coloro-->
    > On Tue, 14 Apr 2009 04:56:12 -0600, Muad'Dib
    > <idaspud52@nospamhotmail.com> wrote:
    >
    > <!--coloro:green--><span style="color:green <!--/coloro-->
    >> Umm.. I call at least a little BS on that. NO drivers included for an HP
    >> Laserjet 4L buddy but is included in Vista, and the one provided by HP
    >> prints garbage in Win 7. Further, Control Panel crashes Windows Explorer
    >> randomly on my machine. Haven't had the time to T-shoot it. I'm NOT the
    >> only person to be having problems.. Go here,
    >> ,search
    >> around and see/read the MANY complaints/problems. Further, the dumb OS
    >> can't even find my print server. ..A not so old Hawking print server.
    >> Get real, Win 7 isn't much better about hardware than Vista was/is. It
    >> couldn't even come up with a real sound driver for my almost three year
    >> old HP. It used a "generic" driver. (It's a Realtech HD) I had to use a
    >> Vista driver for it.<!--colorc--><!--/colorc-->
    >
    > You goddamn people with your antique hardware (anything over a year
    > old). Just buy all new hardware to support MS's new OS and you'll be
    > fine. <!--colorc--><!--/colorc-->

    It's all about obsolescence, but then one can't expect an OS to support
    every piece of computer hardware ever made. BUT, one surely can expect
    them to support reasonably older hardware or at least newer. ( "newer"
    Meaning a few years old) Thing is, people are reporting, honest or not,
    that Win 7 is supposedly supporting more older hardware. That I don't
    see, what I do see is that it has slimmed down enough to RUN on some
    older systems that Vista won't run on. Somewhat of a difference there.
    <!--coloro:blue--><span style="color:blue <!--/coloro--><!--coloro:green--><span style="color:green <!--/coloro-->
    >> ..So please, try to keep from "candy-coating" your
    >> beloved Microsoft OS. While it has it's good points in my testing, it
    >> also has problems.. Everyone act surprised.. <!--colorc--><!--/colorc-->
    >
    > Shocking. Really. <!--colorc--><!--/colorc-->

    LOL, yeah but what is really shocking, is that it does look and feel too
    much like Vista. There should have been a complete overhaul including
    the GUI, in order to get it as far form Vista as possible, not to
    mention more user friendly. The desktop effects are yet another
    disappointment, as they are pretty much not all that useful. I say take
    their clues from Compiz, and OSX, develop their own versions of the very
    useful effects, (not necessarily the eye candy bit), and incorporate
    them in. People would LOVE it and I think MS would finally have a hit.
    Not one, not even one of my clients like Vista, and not because it has
    given them a problem, nope, it's the interface! They HATE it, as many,
    many people do. Nope, MS shouldn't have continued on with a Vista type
    interface.
    <!--coloro:blue--><span style="color:blue <!--/coloro--><!--coloro:green--><span style="color:green <!--/coloro-->
    >> And the "too stupid to own
    >> a computer" excuse is not only OLD, but just that, STUPID. A person
    >> should not have to have a degree in computer science to use one! Please
    >> upgrade your thinking to the 21st century before making such a statement.
    >><!--colorc--><!--/colorc-->
    > 21 is twice his mental age.
    > <!--colorc--><!--/colorc-->

    Well, actions speak louder than words I guess. ;-)

    G'day
     
  7. Yves Dhondt

    Yves Dhondt Guest

    "+Bob+" <nomailplease@example.com> wrote in message
    news:eek:6i9u4tm1v6a6qva08ehfh7a43kupdmksv@4ax.com...<!--coloro:blue--><span style="color:blue <!--/coloro-->
    > On Tue, 14 Apr 2009 11:04:44 -0400, "RalfG" <itsnotme@ladeda.deda>
    > wrote:
    ><!--coloro:green--><span style="color:green <!--/coloro-->
    >>Only some hardware that was abandoned by the respective
    >>MF's in Vista doesn't work in Win7 either... Not MS's responsibility.<!--colorc--><!--/colorc-->
    >
    > If you built a new model of vehicle that required every trailer
    > manufacturer to redesign its hitches to fit, whose responsibility
    > would it be for the *compatibility problem* ?
    ><!--colorc--><!--/colorc-->

    Airplane manufacturer Airbus builds the A380. The airplane needs longer
    runways, has a larger wingspan than normal (causing problems for planes
    passing each other in the airport) and need special boarding gates.
    Basically, it has a *compatibility problem* with every airport in the world.
    Airliners are buying the plane though. And airports just get *updated*.

    Using the above real world example, the answer to your question is: "the
    responsibility is with the trailer manufacturers and not with the guy
    building the vehicule". Mind you, I don't like the answer, it is just
    reality.

    Yves
     
  8. Muad'Dib

    Muad'Dib Guest

    RalfG wrote:<!--coloro:blue--><span style="color:blue <!--/coloro-->
    >
    > "Muad'Dib" <idaspud52@nospamhotmail.com> wrote in message
    > news:49E46BCC.20507@nospamhotmail.com...<!--coloro:green--><span style="color:green <!--/coloro-->
    >> Oldfart wrote:<!--coloro:darkred--><span style="color:darkred <!--/coloro-->
    >>>
    >>>
    >>> pupick wrote:
    >>>> Windows 7 beta is another Microsoft Edsel.
    >>>> It looks and feels like Vista with a slightly different GUI and
    >>>> possibly faster disc access.
    >>>> Microsoft claims that Vista drivers will work under Win 7: I can
    >>>> personally assure you this is not true for the Win 7 64 bit public
    >>>> beta--nothing could be further from the truth.
    >>>
    >>> That's a load of either BS or ignorance. I've been running Win7 32
    >>> and 64 bit versions of build 7000, the official beta release, since
    >>> 16 January and have had *no* glitches of any kind with drivers.
    >>> During installation they installed drivers for *all* of my devices,
    >>> including a ten year old HP printer, and everything works just fine.
    >>>
    >>> My guess is that you are one of those people too stupid to own a
    >>> computer!
    >>>
    >>><!--colorc--><!--/colorc-->
    >>
    >> Umm.. I call at least a little BS on that. NO drivers included for an
    >> HP Laserjet 4L buddy but is included in Vista, and the one provided by
    >> HP prints garbage in Win 7. Further, Control Panel crashes Windows
    >> Explorer randomly on my machine. Haven't had the time to T-shoot it.
    >> I'm NOT the only person to be having problems.. Go here,
    >>
    >> ,search around and see/read the MANY complaints/problems. Further, the
    >> dumb OS can't even find my print server. ..A not so old Hawking print
    >> server. Get real, Win 7 isn't much better about hardware than Vista
    >> was/is. It couldn't even come up with a real sound driver for my
    >> almost three year old HP. It used a "generic" driver. (It's a Realtech
    >> HD) I had to use a Vista driver for it. ..So please, try to keep from
    >> "candy-coating" your beloved Microsoft OS. While it has it's good
    >> points in my testing, it also has problems.. Everyone act surprised..
    >> And the "too stupid to own a computer" excuse is not only OLD, but
    >> just that, STUPID. A person should not have to have a degree in
    >> computer science to use one! Please upgrade your thinking to the 21st
    >> century before making such a statement.
    >>
    >> G'day<!--colorc--><!--/colorc-->
    >
    > Nah, Oldfart was right, if a bit harsh. The relative incompetence of
    > computer users increases proportionally with the increasing
    > sophistication of the OS. Ironically, the more user friendly they make
    > the GUI interface the less incentive there is to ever learn the basics.<!--colorc--><!--/colorc-->

    There you go with the "incompetence" bit. So, you go into the Doc's
    office and you ask him/her a question about this or that and you get a
    reply that you are stupid for asking that question, as you should just
    know. You go into the auto dealer to ask about a feature on the alarm
    remote you don't understand, and you are told you are too stupid to even
    own a remote. You go to your boss and ask about a particular procedure
    in the manufacturing process you are not familiar with, and he says you
    are too stupid to even be employed there. What you DO expect is helpful
    informative answers to your inquiries.

    Same here buddy. Not everyone is savvy about computers and how they
    operate, but ask them how to perform heart surgery, and they can tell
    you plenty. It's called compassion, and understanding when dealing with
    people who don't know what you do, and ask you for help. I have clients
    who couldn't even create a new directory, much less figure out how to
    put stuff int it once created. Had I told them they were too stupid to
    own a computer rather than teach them, well, I wouldn't have any clients
    now would I. Get it? Arrogance has NO place here.
    <!--coloro:blue--><span style="color:blue <!--/coloro-->
    > Not MS's responsibility.<!--colorc--><!--/colorc-->

    Yeah, yeah, I know. Vista had the drivers, Win 7 doesn't is my point.
    There is STILL many, many, HP laserjet *L printers in use today, so no
    good reason not to support them. BUT according to HP, they will not be
    updating the drivers any longer. Same ol' same ol'.. Sure, I have a nice
    newer printer, but I like to use the 4L from time to time. I'll just
    boot to Linux to print to it, it's still supported there.. As far as
    what happened with the Realtech driver, well, it makes no difference
    what you may or may not have got installed during YOUR Win 7 install
    with my post, MY install did not include Realtech drivers. Easily fixed,
    but my point was made. The general user wouldn't have a clue of what to do.

    Overall the most painless clean OS install I've done in<!--coloro:blue--><span style="color:blue <!--/coloro-->
    > recent years. There are as many complaints about any OS as there are
    > crap computers, defunct peripherals and crappy 3rd party software
    > installs out there, plus there are whatever real problems that exist in
    > this beta version OS. Up till now I've encountered exactly none of those
    > problems, but I haven't added a lot of 3rd party software to Win7 yet
    > either and there is a seemingly infinite variety of tasks that other
    > people do with their computers that I'd never try.<!--colorc--><!--/colorc-->

    Oh yeah, for sure, there are many, many, reasons an OS may have trouble
    and it not be it's fault. Like I said, I haven't had/taken the time to
    T-shoot the Windows Explorer crashing bit with control panel, but I'll
    figure it out. For the most part my testing has gone very well. I just
    don't like people making something out to be better than it is. People
    tend to omit ANY trouble when praising/advocating something, and
    particularly an OS or some software to make sure that thing sounds
    perfect. I'll call BS when I hear/see it period.

    G'day
     
  9. I agree with you.

    But, you are missing one BIG point! Every example you gave is of a person
    earning a salary. Everyone here is a volunteer or a troll.

    It would be nice if they performed as if they were bringing home the bacon
    but the fact is - they aren't. Plus, you can easily tell the ones who are
    here out of boredom or just like to be trouble makers. They can't be "fired"
    as they would be if they were actually being paid for being on these news
    groups.

    --

    Richard Urban
    Microsoft MVP
    Windows Desktop Experience



    "Muad'Dib" <idaspud52@nospamhotmail.com> wrote in message
    news:49E5BA5C.6070701@nospamhotmail.com...<!--coloro:blue--><span style="color:blue <!--/coloro-->
    > RalfG wrote:<!--coloro:green--><span style="color:green <!--/coloro-->
    >>
    >> "Muad'Dib" <idaspud52@nospamhotmail.com> wrote in message
    >> news:49E46BCC.20507@nospamhotmail.com...<!--coloro:darkred--><span style="color:darkred <!--/coloro-->
    >>> Oldfart wrote:
    >>>>
    >>>>
    >>>> pupick wrote:
    >>>>> Windows 7 beta is another Microsoft Edsel.
    >>>>> It looks and feels like Vista with a slightly different GUI and
    >>>>> possibly faster disc access.
    >>>>> Microsoft claims that Vista drivers will work under Win 7: I can
    >>>>> personally assure you this is not true for the Win 7 64 bit public
    >>>>> beta--nothing could be further from the truth.
    >>>>
    >>>> That's a load of either BS or ignorance. I've been running Win7 32 and
    >>>> 64 bit versions of build 7000, the official beta release, since 16
    >>>> January and have had *no* glitches of any kind with drivers. During
    >>>> installation they installed drivers for *all* of my devices, including
    >>>> a ten year old HP printer, and everything works just fine.
    >>>>
    >>>> My guess is that you are one of those people too stupid to own a
    >>>> computer!
    >>>>
    >>>>
    >>>
    >>> Umm.. I call at least a little BS on that. NO drivers included for an HP
    >>> Laserjet 4L buddy but is included in Vista, and the one provided by HP
    >>> prints garbage in Win 7. Further, Control Panel crashes Windows Explorer
    >>> randomly on my machine. Haven't had the time to T-shoot it. I'm NOT the
    >>> only person to be having problems.. Go here,
    >>> ,search
    >>> around and see/read the MANY complaints/problems. Further, the dumb OS
    >>> can't even find my print server. ..A not so old Hawking print server.
    >>> Get real, Win 7 isn't much better about hardware than Vista was/is. It
    >>> couldn't even come up with a real sound driver for my almost three year
    >>> old HP. It used a "generic" driver. (It's a Realtech HD) I had to use a
    >>> Vista driver for it. ..So please, try to keep from "candy-coating" your
    >>> beloved Microsoft OS. While it has it's good points in my testing, it
    >>> also has problems.. Everyone act surprised.. And the "too stupid to own
    >>> a computer" excuse is not only OLD, but just that, STUPID. A person
    >>> should not have to have a degree in computer science to use one! Please
    >>> upgrade your thinking to the 21st century before making such a
    >>> statement.
    >>>
    >>> G'day<!--colorc--><!--/colorc-->
    >>
    >> Nah, Oldfart was right, if a bit harsh. The relative incompetence of
    >> computer users increases proportionally with the increasing
    >> sophistication of the OS. Ironically, the more user friendly they make
    >> the GUI interface the less incentive there is to ever learn the basics.<!--colorc--><!--/colorc-->
    >
    > There you go with the "incompetence" bit. So, you go into the Doc's office
    > and you ask him/her a question about this or that and you get a reply that
    > you are stupid for asking that question, as you should just know. You go
    > into the auto dealer to ask about a feature on the alarm remote you don't
    > understand, and you are told you are too stupid to even own a remote. You
    > go to your boss and ask about a particular procedure in the manufacturing
    > process you are not familiar with, and he says you are too stupid to even
    > be employed there. What you DO expect is helpful informative answers to
    > your inquiries.
    >
    > Same here buddy. Not everyone is savvy about computers and how they
    > operate, but ask them how to perform heart surgery, and they can tell you
    > plenty. It's called compassion, and understanding when dealing with people
    > who don't know what you do, and ask you for help. I have clients who
    > couldn't even create a new directory, much less figure out how to put
    > stuff int it once created. Had I told them they were too stupid to own a
    > computer rather than teach them, well, I wouldn't have any clients now
    > would I. Get it? Arrogance has NO place here.
    ><!--coloro:green--><span style="color:green <!--/coloro-->
    >> Not MS's responsibility.<!--colorc--><!--/colorc-->
    >
    > Yeah, yeah, I know. Vista had the drivers, Win 7 doesn't is my point.
    > There is STILL many, many, HP laserjet *L printers in use today, so no
    > good reason not to support them. BUT according to HP, they will not be
    > updating the drivers any longer. Same ol' same ol'.. Sure, I have a nice
    > newer printer, but I like to use the 4L from time to time. I'll just boot
    > to Linux to print to it, it's still supported there.. As far as what
    > happened with the Realtech driver, well, it makes no difference what you
    > may or may not have got installed during YOUR Win 7 install with my post,
    > MY install did not include Realtech drivers. Easily fixed, but my point
    > was made. The general user wouldn't have a clue of what to do.
    >
    > Overall the most painless clean OS install I've done in<!--coloro:green--><span style="color:green <!--/coloro-->
    >> recent years. There are as many complaints about any OS as there are crap
    >> computers, defunct peripherals and crappy 3rd party software installs out
    >> there, plus there are whatever real problems that exist in this beta
    >> version OS. Up till now I've encountered exactly none of those problems,
    >> but I haven't added a lot of 3rd party software to Win7 yet either and
    >> there is a seemingly infinite variety of tasks that other people do with
    >> their computers that I'd never try.<!--colorc--><!--/colorc-->
    >
    > Oh yeah, for sure, there are many, many, reasons an OS may have trouble
    > and it not be it's fault. Like I said, I haven't had/taken the time to
    > T-shoot the Windows Explorer crashing bit with control panel, but I'll
    > figure it out. For the most part my testing has gone very well. I just
    > don't like people making something out to be better than it is. People
    > tend to omit ANY trouble when praising/advocating something, and
    > particularly an OS or some software to make sure that thing sounds
    > perfect. I'll call BS when I hear/see it period.
    >
    > G'day <!--colorc--><!--/colorc-->
     
  10. On Wed, 15 Apr 2009 17:28:48 -0400, "Richard Urban"
    <richardurbanREMOVETHIS@hotmail.com> wrote:
    <!--coloro:blue--><span style="color:blue <!--/coloro-->
    >I agree with you.
    >
    >But, you are missing one BIG point! Every example you gave is of a person
    >earning a salary. Everyone here is a volunteer or a troll.
    >
    >It would be nice if they performed as if they were bringing home the bacon
    >but the fact is - they aren't. <!--colorc--><!--/colorc-->

    Just being paid for support isn't always a good thing. It's a red herring. You
    figure it's support FROM the horses mouth, but usually find they don't have a
    clue, and no idea if the answer their prompt book has told them is correct. You
    blindly follow bad advice. What I've found from support at the other end, is
    you're better off using google and evaluating just how sensible the answer
    sounds. Or a kill file here in a newsgroup. I have found some support that know
    what they're doing, but they're a minority.

    And it's not just 1 company either.. ie: My current with CSI:NY. played it
    immediately after installing it, ran thru game 1, it crashed in game 2. Now
    when firing it up, it ALWAYS starts from game one. And saving position has zero
    effect. Their suggestion, uninstall and reinstall...And make sure I get all the
    bits and pieces.. sheesh bits & pieces.. That can't be done if you don't know
    what it wrote and where.

    It's a NEW CLEAN install.

    I spent almost a whole day with one guy at MS. Total waste of time.
    Had to reinstall the OS because of some excellent help from HP..
    and the list goes on...
     
  11. Muad'Dib

    Muad'Dib Guest

    "Richard Urban" <richardurbanREMOVETHIS@hotmail.com> wrote in message
    news:e4vbuEhvJHA.496@TK2MSFTNGP06.phx.gbl...<!--coloro:blue--><span style="color:blue <!--/coloro-->
    >I agree with you.
    >
    > But, you are missing one BIG point! Every example you gave is of a person
    > earning a salary. Everyone here is a volunteer or a troll.<!--colorc--><!--/colorc-->

    True.. I was just hoping to get one thinking how they might feel if
    /everyone/ had that sort of attitude.
    <!--coloro:blue--><span style="color:blue <!--/coloro-->
    > It would be nice if they performed as if they were bringing home the bacon
    > but the fact is - they aren't. Plus, you can easily tell the ones who are
    > here out of boredom or just like to be trouble makers. They can't be
    > "fired" as they would be if they were actually being paid for being on
    > these news groups.<!--colorc--><!--/colorc-->

    Yup, so they say/do whatever they want, including attacking volunteers. Not
    that it will ever change, or what I might say could possibily make a
    difference, I just feel the need to pipe-up from time to time. Ah well, at
    least I feel better having said /something/ rather than nothing.

    Cheers
    <!--coloro:blue--><span style="color:blue <!--/coloro-->
    >
    > --
    >
    > Richard Urban
    > Microsoft MVP
    > Windows Desktop Experience
    >
    >
    >
    > "Muad'Dib" <idaspud52@nospamhotmail.com> wrote in message
    > news:49E5BA5C.6070701@nospamhotmail.com...<!--coloro:green--><span style="color:green <!--/coloro-->
    >> RalfG wrote:<!--coloro:darkred--><span style="color:darkred <!--/coloro-->
    >>>
    >>> "Muad'Dib" <idaspud52@nospamhotmail.com> wrote in message
    >>> news:49E46BCC.20507@nospamhotmail.com...
    >>>> Oldfart wrote:
    >>>>>
    >>>>>
    >>>>> pupick wrote:
    >>>>>> Windows 7 beta is another Microsoft Edsel.
    >>>>>> It looks and feels like Vista with a slightly different GUI and
    >>>>>> possibly faster disc access.
    >>>>>> Microsoft claims that Vista drivers will work under Win 7: I can
    >>>>>> personally assure you this is not true for the Win 7 64 bit public
    >>>>>> beta--nothing could be further from the truth.
    >>>>>
    >>>>> That's a load of either BS or ignorance. I've been running Win7 32 and
    >>>>> 64 bit versions of build 7000, the official beta release, since 16
    >>>>> January and have had *no* glitches of any kind with drivers. During
    >>>>> installation they installed drivers for *all* of my devices, including
    >>>>> a ten year old HP printer, and everything works just fine.
    >>>>>
    >>>>> My guess is that you are one of those people too stupid to own a
    >>>>> computer!
    >>>>>
    >>>>>
    >>>>
    >>>> Umm.. I call at least a little BS on that. NO drivers included for an
    >>>> HP Laserjet 4L buddy but is included in Vista, and the one provided by
    >>>> HP prints garbage in Win 7. Further, Control Panel crashes Windows
    >>>> Explorer randomly on my machine. Haven't had the time to T-shoot it.
    >>>> I'm NOT the only person to be having problems.. Go here,
    >>>> ,search
    >>>> around and see/read the MANY complaints/problems. Further, the dumb OS
    >>>> can't even find my print server. ..A not so old Hawking print server.
    >>>> Get real, Win 7 isn't much better about hardware than Vista was/is. It
    >>>> couldn't even come up with a real sound driver for my almost three year
    >>>> old HP. It used a "generic" driver. (It's a Realtech HD) I had to use a
    >>>> Vista driver for it. ..So please, try to keep from "candy-coating" your
    >>>> beloved Microsoft OS. While it has it's good points in my testing, it
    >>>> also has problems.. Everyone act surprised.. And the "too stupid to
    >>>> own a computer" excuse is not only OLD, but just that, STUPID. A person
    >>>> should not have to have a degree in computer science to use one! Please
    >>>> upgrade your thinking to the 21st century before making such a
    >>>> statement.
    >>>>
    >>>> G'day
    >>>
    >>> Nah, Oldfart was right, if a bit harsh. The relative incompetence of
    >>> computer users increases proportionally with the increasing
    >>> sophistication of the OS. Ironically, the more user friendly they make
    >>> the GUI interface the less incentive there is to ever learn the basics.<!--colorc--><!--/colorc-->
    >>
    >> There you go with the "incompetence" bit. So, you go into the Doc's
    >> office and you ask him/her a question about this or that and you get a
    >> reply that you are stupid for asking that question, as you should just
    >> know. You go into the auto dealer to ask about a feature on the alarm
    >> remote you don't understand, and you are told you are too stupid to even
    >> own a remote. You go to your boss and ask about a particular procedure in
    >> the manufacturing process you are not familiar with, and he says you are
    >> too stupid to even be employed there. What you DO expect is helpful
    >> informative answers to your inquiries.
    >>
    >> Same here buddy. Not everyone is savvy about computers and how they
    >> operate, but ask them how to perform heart surgery, and they can tell you
    >> plenty. It's called compassion, and understanding when dealing with
    >> people who don't know what you do, and ask you for help. I have clients
    >> who couldn't even create a new directory, much less figure out how to put
    >> stuff int it once created. Had I told them they were too stupid to own a
    >> computer rather than teach them, well, I wouldn't have any clients now
    >> would I. Get it? Arrogance has NO place here.
    >><!--coloro:darkred--><span style="color:darkred <!--/coloro-->
    >>> Not MS's responsibility.<!--colorc--><!--/colorc-->
    >>
    >> Yeah, yeah, I know. Vista had the drivers, Win 7 doesn't is my point.
    >> There is STILL many, many, HP laserjet *L printers in use today, so no
    >> good reason not to support them. BUT according to HP, they will not be
    >> updating the drivers any longer. Same ol' same ol'.. Sure, I have a nice
    >> newer printer, but I like to use the 4L from time to time. I'll just boot
    >> to Linux to print to it, it's still supported there.. As far as what
    >> happened with the Realtech driver, well, it makes no difference what you
    >> may or may not have got installed during YOUR Win 7 install with my post,
    >> MY install did not include Realtech drivers. Easily fixed, but my point
    >> was made. The general user wouldn't have a clue of what to do.
    >>
    >> Overall the most painless clean OS install I've done in<!--coloro:darkred--><span style="color:darkred <!--/coloro-->
    >>> recent years. There are as many complaints about any OS as there are
    >>> crap computers, defunct peripherals and crappy 3rd party software
    >>> installs out there, plus there are whatever real problems that exist in
    >>> this beta version OS. Up till now I've encountered exactly none of those
    >>> problems, but I haven't added a lot of 3rd party software to Win7 yet
    >>> either and there is a seemingly infinite variety of tasks that other
    >>> people do with their computers that I'd never try.<!--colorc--><!--/colorc-->
    >>
    >> Oh yeah, for sure, there are many, many, reasons an OS may have trouble
    >> and it not be it's fault. Like I said, I haven't had/taken the time to
    >> T-shoot the Windows Explorer crashing bit with control panel, but I'll
    >> figure it out. For the most part my testing has gone very well. I just
    >> don't like people making something out to be better than it is. People
    >> tend to omit ANY trouble when praising/advocating something, and
    >> particularly an OS or some software to make sure that thing sounds
    >> perfect. I'll call BS when I hear/see it period.
    >>
    >> G'day<!--colorc--><!--/colorc-->
    > <!--colorc--><!--/colorc-->
     
  12. Zedo Mann

    Zedo Mann Guest

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