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Windows 10 EULA states Microsoft can check a PC for ‘counterfeit games’

Discussion in 'Windows 10 Information and Alerts' started by starbuck, Aug 16, 2015.

  1. starbuck

    starbuck Rest In Peace Pete Administrator

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    While Windows 10 has had a smooth release there have been mounting concerns over new data gathering policies. One such concern comes from Windows users who may not be completely square with the law when it comes to their software licenses. It would seem Microsoft has left the situation intentionally vague to give themselves plenty of room to do what they want.

    One such concern is that Microsoft will use their new data collection policies to crack down on software pirates. Explicitly within the Microsoft Services Agreement Microsoft will check your system for “playing counterfeit games, or using unauthorized hardware peripheral devices”. While it seems odd to narrow the counterfeit software to only games the statement remains in the agreement.

    Perhaps this section pertains to their Xbox consoles and gamers hacking them to load pirated games as was popular with the original Xbox. Now Microsoft has the right to search for such hacks and disable the console from accessing Microsoft services. With the language being so vague it is unclear if Microsoft plans on sharing the information they gather about counterfeit games with law enforcement or if they simply want to disable the content from functioning.

    Yet another confusing factor in this whole debacle involves how Windows 10 will now be used across PC, Phone, Xbox, HoloLens, and Surface Hub. Now EULAs need to be written to include protections against stolen phones, Xbox mods, enterprise security, and required updates. Unifying Windows 10 was a technical challenge but now it would seem to also be a serious legal challenge to merge the different licenses into one cohesive agreement spanning all the different usage scenarios.

    There is no doubt Microsoft has done a good job of creating Windows 10 to work great for most of their users, but now that Windows 10 has launched they need to focus on how to communicate to their concerned users. With such a great product hanging in the balance Microsoft needs to keep these privacy concerns from hurting the image of Windows 10. So far Microsoft has been largely silent but they need to clarify why they are doing what they do and how users will be affected.


    Source:
    http://www.winbeta.org/news/windows10counterfeitgames
     
  2. IceMan37

    IceMan37 Banned

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    Good to know how it can affect the gamer. Hopefully this will reduce piracy :D
     
  3. starbuck

    starbuck Rest In Peace Pete Administrator

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    Have found out a little more...............

    Windows 10 can check for ‘counterfeit games’ if you sign in with a Microsoft Account.
    Just to clarify.... the EULA mentioned pertains to Microsoft services, which includes the Microsoft account, as well as Xbox and online services.

    Microsoft will check your system for “playing counterfeit games, or using unauthorized hardware peripheral devices”. While it seems odd to narrow the counterfeit software to only games the statement remains in the agreement.

    Perhaps this section pertains to their Xbox consoles and gamers hacking them to load pirated games as was popular with the original Xbox.
    Now Microsoft has the right to search for such hacks and disable the console from accessing Microsoft services.
    With the language being so vague it is unclear if Microsoft plans on sharing the information they gather about counterfeit games with law enforcement or if they simply want to disable the content from functioning.

    More information here:
    http://www.winbeta.org/news/windows10counterfeitgames
     
  4. IceMan37

    IceMan37 Banned

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    Great read. Looks like if you sign the EULA with W10, and you then employ hacks you might get blocked out. From my own personal experience I know I work hard and I don't want anyone taking credit for my work or stealing it. So in my opinion this is a good thing.
     
  5. bringIT

    bringIT Registered Members

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    First off who made Microsoft the police? I say leave it to the software manufacture to stop counterfeit games. And what is unauthorized hardware peripheral devices? How is something unauthorized? I don't even know what that is. It is my computer not Microsoft's and I determine what hardware peripherals I want to use not them. If I ever have something disabled due to this restriction it will be the last time MS ever sees anything of mine.
     
  6. IceMan37

    IceMan37 Banned

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    You make some good points bringIT. There is always Linux :)
     
  7. Rich M

    Rich M Guest

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    Well you can look at either side differently and as much as I agree that Ms is not the "software police" using pirated software has always bothered me because the money supports the work the Freebie doesn't want to pay for and yet he won't give up eating so someone else can have something for nothing.
     
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  8. bringIT

    bringIT Registered Members

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    I agree with paying for what you use unless the author makes it free. Believe me I have no pirate software on any of my machines. And I pay for movies. But just like the DRM on legally bought movies sometimes is an issue I can see this turning into headache as MS disables legal software and hardware. It makes no sense for them to get into this except for their own services and software.
     
  9. starbuck

    starbuck Rest In Peace Pete Administrator

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    I think you are missing the point here.
    Downloading and running counterfeit games . is ILLEGAL.
    Plus a lot of these counterfeit games come bundled with malware.

    As M$ also own the XBox, they are perfectly entitled to stop counterfeit games being run on their systems.

    We have programs that we can run on systems that will tell us if illegal software is installed and if so, we can withhold help to the person.
    Does that make us the forum police?

    Those that don't run illegal software, have nothing to worry about.
     
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  10. bringIT

    bringIT Registered Members

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    Okay I'll bite how do you determine what is "illegal" software? Please define.

    As far as missing the point I don't think so. I have several Blu-Ray movies that I purchased and have a Blu-Ray player connected to my TV. Upon first purchase of several of these movies I had to wait for the manufacture to update their DRM software in order for me to play legally purchased movies. This is a headache and can takes months!!! One thing that always comes to mind is I live in the US and here it is innocent until proven guilty. I hate any policy or program that is guilty until proven innocent. Most of this DRM B.S. is guilty until proven innocent. One time after calling the manufacture they told me to buy a new machine because they would no longer be supporting the model I have. The model was only about 2 years old. You know what this made me want to do? Fire up my PC and illegally download a copy so I could watch the movie I just paid for. I didn't but you understand

    Believe me I understand all to well the pitfalls of policing software.

    And YES it does make you the forum police unless the so called Illegal software is directly responsible for the issue you are trying to correct. You can say "well this illegal software could be causing the issue". Yeah well what about all the legal software that causes issues? And at that point it should be recommended to the client to remove said software as it is/could causing an issue. However, since you offer free support you can tell them to kiss off for any reason. The day you go "pay for service" your policy would have to change.


    And I still want to know what Illegal hardware is? I have no idea what this would even be?

    Xbox well I don't own an Xbox. I understand that developers need to get paid and I have no problem with that. However, if it impacts my game play or legal use of MY Xbox then it needs to change. And this is true of any devices I OWN. The misconception is coming in as the manufacture OWNS the equipment. NO I purchased the equipment and what I do with it is up to me. Not that I support pirates but if you own the equipment and you modify it to do something else More Power To You! If you can turn an Xbox into a weather station great! cool!

    Oh I can see it now any Xbox controller not made by MS is Illegal! Just locked you into sales. See where this is going?
     
  11. starbuck

    starbuck Rest In Peace Pete Administrator

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    This really isn't rocket science.

    A lot of gamers will avoid paying for games by using Torrents to download games containing 'Cracks' or Keygens' to make them playable.
    This way they get the game for free instead of paying for it.

    This has nothing to do with what M$ are stating in the EULA.

    Again, this has nothing to do with the EULA.

    Then I'm happy to be the forum police.
    Whether the illegal software has anything to do with the users issue doesn't come into it.

    If someone robbed a bank would you help him to get away..... after all you didn't steal the money??
    What he did was illegal and if you then help him... you are an accomplice.

    Yep... you really are missing the point.
     
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  12. Rich M

    Rich M Guest

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    Oh, I don't think he is missing the point Pete as we will make a user remove a P2P downloader because it interferes with and no doubt contributes to the user's problem but other than for that it really is not our business. If there is bogus Windows, well no we can't help them at all but that isn't because they are bad people and use pirated Windows software, it's because our Forum rules prohibit us to work with anyone using bogus software because if we do them we become accessories before the fact, not because the behavior is bad. So I'm afraid each issue can easily be different but in no way is it our job or is it even desirable from a forum standpoint that we police what our members use in their own systems I'm afraid. But it is also a "catch 22" because we cannot be seen as condoning their behavior either and we may have to walk away from the situation for that which is still another reason.
     
  13. starbuck

    starbuck Rest In Peace Pete Administrator

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    and games are not software??

    Any Malware Removal helper will check for cracked software if suspected.
    If found... they do have the right to refuse help unless the software is removed.

    Basically all of this is argument to argument sake.
     
  14. Rich M

    Rich M Guest

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    I don't think so but the point you are making is that if it is part of the Malware helper's job description, then there is a second reason then for elimination of pirated software.
     
  15. bringIT

    bringIT Registered Members

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    Maybe I am missing the point but I'm still waiting for answers from you Starbuck.

    What is Illegal hardware?

    How does MS determine what is legal hardware/software?

    How do you determine what is legal software?

    My point about the EULA is this: It is an open ended contract upon which MS determines what is legal and what isn't and I don't agree with it. Call MS and try to get them to enter into such an open ended contract with you I'll bet you a million dollars they won't do it. Why? Because no one would. No one in their right mind would agree to such a contract in which someone else has all the control. Until it is spelled out as to what all this legal and illegal search and seizure is I can't see why anyone would agree to it.

    Hey Starbuck that cool new gamer keyboard you have is now illegal hardware according to MS. So is that cool gamepad. Now what? Now do you understand? And the statement of if you don't have anything illegal then you have nothing to worry about makes no sense. They have not defined what is or isn't illegal.

    Now back to what you do. You are here in a forum and someone asks for help - Do you start looking for illegal software? For what? I don't understand your point at all. When I bring my car to GM for warranty they don't start looking at every part to see if it is stolen? They fix the issue that needs to be fix and I go on my way. I don't see how it is any different for you. You fix what is wrong and move on. And your point about the bank makes no sense either. You didn't help them steal anything, you are helping to fix something. If someone calls me to fix their PC and I see they have stolen movies and I proceed to fix the PC I have no connection to the stolen movies. I didn't steal them nor did I help to steal them. I fixed a PC issue and that is all. I understand you not wanting to help such a person and can do so because you are a Free Service. But really I want to know how you determine such a thing.

    I was asked the question of if I found child porn on someone's PC what would I do? My answer: I would never know it was there. Why? Because a customers data is their data and I respect that. I don't look at customers data, I would never know.

    Most games today are played online and require a subscription. So the stolen game point is almost a moot one. Everything is free to play to a certain point now also, however to really achieve at a game you must pay. Why was this model adopted? To fight the pirates. Which brings up a good point. What about the person who pays for a game $50-$60 and a month or two later it goes free to play? Now I have been robbed! And this has happen to me a few times.


    And believe me I understand that people should be paid for what they do. I pay for all my stuff. When I do see someone who has stolen software or movies and such I ask them "How long would you do your job for free?" I understand this can ruin the economy.

    So tell me again how I don't get the point? What is it that I don't get? Maybe you know of a man named Hitler?
     
    Last edited: Aug 21, 2015
  16. starbuck

    starbuck Rest In Peace Pete Administrator

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    Why do you expect me to answer your questions?
    Can't you find the answers yourself?

    That's fair enough...... don't use Win10 then. (problem sorted)

    There is no clarity on what M$ means when it says unauthorized hardware peripheral devices.
    It could mean that the company may disable e.g. Xbox controllers that are uncertified by Microsoft.

    Like i said before.... you are missing the point!
    The agreement covers Xbox 360, Xbox One, Windows Phone, and all manner of other Microsoft services.
    It doesn't cover non M$ hardware.

    Ask M$.
    Nothing to do with me.

    No.... but if it's there, I'll be able to see it in the reports.

    Bristol PC World engineer uncovered Glitter's child abuse images

    Are you for real?

    This thread has now been over exhausted and is just arguing for the sake of it.
    To that end, this is my last post in this thread.
    There is more to life than replying in a dead end thread.
     

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