W7 Upgrade Advisor

"Eric" <someone@idontwantspam.com> wrote in message
news:uQQUwbYAKHA.5020@TK2MSFTNGP04.phx.gbl...<!--coloro:blue--><span style="color:blue <!--/coloro-->
>
> "Michael Dobony" <survey@stopassaultnow.net> wrote in message
> news:1lm7yqskee0wq.1ddevvwkyfsbd$.dlg@40tude.net...<!--coloro:green--><span style="color:green <!--/coloro--><!--coloro:darkred--><span style="color:darkred <!--/coloro-->
>>>> How do you ask for your money back from a manufacturer installed
>>>> operating
>>>> system when there is only one operating system allowed by Microsoft? If
>>>> I
>>>> had a choice I would have bought XP, but I had NO choices available
>>>> except
>>>> a used computer with XP that was less than 1/2 the speed of this low
>>>> end
>>>> new computer. I didn't have time to do any real shopping as I needed
>>>> this
>>>> laptop for school after my last one died and was not worth rebuilding
>>>> again
>>>> (hand-me-down from my son, and it survived nearly a year in Nigeria).
>>>
>>> There's always a choice. I bought mine from Best Buy and I believe all
>>> of
>>> their machines had Vista on them, either Basic or Premium, but there
>>> were
>>> plenty of new PCs on the internet for sale with XP installed.
>>> Manufacturers don't install operating systems. If you mean retailer
>>> installed operating system, you would have to contact them for a refund.
>>> You could try asking Microsoft but most likely they'll refer you to
>>> whoever
>>> installed it.<!--colorc--><!--/colorc-->
>>
>> What planet are you from? Compaq, the MANUFACTURER, installs Windows on
>> their machines. Dell, the MANUFACTURER, installs Windows on their
>> machines.
>> Micro$$$$$$oft forbid the manufacturers from installing XP and demanded
>> that they only install Vista on their computers and even forbid them from
>> supporting XP downgrades. Yes, some OLDER and refurbished computers are
>> available on the internet with XP installed, but I did not have the time
>> available to search them out and wait for shipping. I had about 2 days
>> to
>> locate and take possession of it to have time to get my critical programs
>> installed before school started. In my case, thanks to Micro$$$oft's
>> arrogance and greed and illegal market control, Compaq does NOT support
>> XP
>> on my laptop.<!--colorc--><!--/colorc-->
>
> Dell is not a manufacturer. They're a retailer. Open your Dell PC and
> see whos' name is on the hard drive. PC retailers assemble PCs from parts
> made by manufacturers, and as is stated in the other response, Dell does
> offer new PCs with XP installed. Check here:
>
> I don't know of any physical Dell store, so I'm not sure if they could get
> you a new system in 2 days. If we knew where you are we could check if
> anyone in your immediate area offers new PCs with XP, but all you'd have
> to do is grab a phone book and ask around. If you're saying you live in
> the middle of nowhere with one PC store and they didn't offer any and you
> didn't care to drive to somewhere that did, that's your problem. I don't
> think it's MS' fault if your little PC store wants Vista to dominate the
> OS market. I also wonder why a school would give you just 2 days to find
> and setup a computer. Normally they can tell you months in advance what
> you'll need.<!--colorc--><!--/colorc-->

Exactly, bashing MS and Vista isn't going to change that.
<H>.<!--coloro:blue--><span style="color:blue <!--/coloro-->
>
> <!--colorc--><!--/colorc-->

 

Eric wrote:
<!--coloro:blue--><span style="color:blue <!--/coloro-->
> W7 advisor is apparently made for PCs not running Vista. If you're running
> Vista you shouldn't need it. You're supposed to assume it will work.
>
> <!--colorc--><!--/colorc-->
Then why did they make the upgrade advisor to run on Vista? And,
incidentally, I assumed that Vista would work. WRONG!!!!!
Allen

 

Eric wrote:<!--coloro:blue--><span style="color:blue <!--/coloro-->
> "Michael Dobony" <survey@stopassaultnow.net> wrote in message
> news:1lm7yqskee0wq.1ddevvwkyfsbd$.dlg@40tude.net...<!--coloro:green--><span style="color:green <!--/coloro--><!--coloro:darkred--><span style="color:darkred <!--/coloro-->
>>>> How do you ask for your money back from a manufacturer installed
>>>> operating
>>>> system when there is only one operating system allowed by Microsoft? If
>>>> I
>>>> had a choice I would have bought XP, but I had NO choices available
>>>> except
>>>> a used computer with XP that was less than 1/2 the speed of this low end
>>>> new computer. I didn't have time to do any real shopping as I needed
>>>> this
>>>> laptop for school after my last one died and was not worth rebuilding
>>>> again
>>>> (hand-me-down from my son, and it survived nearly a year in Nigeria).
>>> There's always a choice. I bought mine from Best Buy and I believe all
>>> of
>>> their machines had Vista on them, either Basic or Premium, but there were
>>> plenty of new PCs on the internet for sale with XP installed.
>>> Manufacturers don't install operating systems. If you mean retailer
>>> installed operating system, you would have to contact them for a refund.
>>> You could try asking Microsoft but most likely they'll refer you to
>>> whoever
>>> installed it.<!--colorc--><!--/colorc-->
>> What planet are you from? Compaq, the MANUFACTURER, installs Windows on
>> their machines. Dell, the MANUFACTURER, installs Windows on their
>> machines.
>> Micro$$$$$$oft forbid the manufacturers from installing XP and demanded
>> that they only install Vista on their computers and even forbid them from
>> supporting XP downgrades. Yes, some OLDER and refurbished computers are
>> available on the internet with XP installed, but I did not have the time
>> available to search them out and wait for shipping. I had about 2 days to
>> locate and take possession of it to have time to get my critical programs
>> installed before school started. In my case, thanks to Micro$$$oft's
>> arrogance and greed and illegal market control, Compaq does NOT support XP
>> on my laptop.<!--colorc--><!--/colorc-->
>
> Dell is not a manufacturer. They're a retailer. Open your Dell PC and see
> whos' name is on the hard drive. PC retailers assemble PCs from parts made
> by manufacturers, and as is stated in the other response, Dell does offer
> new PCs with XP installed. Check here:
>
> I don't know of any physical Dell store, so I'm not sure if they could get
> you a new system in 2 days. If we knew where you are we could check if
> anyone in your immediate area offers new PCs with XP, but all you'd have to
> do is grab a phone book and ask around. If you're saying you live in the
> middle of nowhere with one PC store and they didn't offer any and you didn't
> care to drive to somewhere that did, that's your problem. I don't think
> it's MS' fault if your little PC store wants Vista to dominate the OS
> market. I also wonder why a school would give you just 2 days to find and
> setup a computer. Normally they can tell you months in advance what you'll
> need.
>
> <!--colorc--><!--/colorc-->
I believe that you are as completely uninformed as a person could be.
Name a computer manufacturer that makes its own hard drives. Its CD/DVD
drives. The various capacitors, resistors, batteries, etc inside the
case. Please stop peddling your uninformed nonsense.
Allen

PS: by the way, PLONK!

 

I have never had automatic restarts with XP, but lots<!--coloro:blue--><span style="color:blue <!--/coloro-->
> of them with Vista, at least 3 times a week. <!--colorc--><!--/colorc-->

Since I let Vista install updates I have the same problem.

I<!--coloro:blue--><span style="color:blue <!--/coloro-->
> started out on computers on an early version of DOS <!--colorc--><!--/colorc-->

Dos 6.2 and IBM's PC-DOS for me.

2.1

I can only remember Win 3.1.

 

On Fri, 10 Jul 2009 22:35:40 +0200, "Spook" <spook@xnets.co.za> wrote:
<!--coloro:blue--><span style="color:blue <!--/coloro-->
>I have never had automatic restarts with XP, but lots<!--coloro:green--><span style="color:green <!--/coloro-->
>> of them with Vista, at least 3 times a week. <!--colorc--><!--/colorc-->
>
>Since I let Vista install updates I have the same problem.
>
> I<!--coloro:green--><span style="color:green <!--/coloro-->
>> started out on computers on an early version of DOS <!--colorc--><!--/colorc-->
>
>Dos 6.2 and IBM's PC-DOS for me.
>
> 2.1
>
>I can only remember Win 3.1. <!--colorc--><!--/colorc-->

n00bs!

 

> Dell is not a manufacturer. They're a retailer.

You are right in the sense that, traditionally speaking, manufacturers who
manufacture products by assembly or production don't sell products
"directly" to end users such as consumer and business. Products are sold
through various forms of distribution channels (a.k.a. middleman) including
trading companies, wholesalers, retailers, and so on.

Retailers, on the other hand, usually engage in "buying and selling"
activities and are the ones dealing with consumer and business end users,
and they usually don't include any manufacturing activities, except for
packaging, warehousing, and other logistics activities.

Dell is an exception in the sense that they manufacture computers and also
sell directly to end users in order to cut down distribution costs AND also
to have first-hand end user information/feedbacks, which otherwise, needed
to be passed through by distribution channels, and thus, information usually
are delayed, incomplete, and/or distorted.

So, Dell is both an manufacturer and a retailer because they use what is
known as "direct sales" model.

Note that it's a common practice for manufacturers to include parts and
components from other manufacturers, such as your example of hard drives or
car stereo systems for car manufacturers or motherboard manufacturers use
Intel's chipsets.

Nowadays, things are more complicated since retailers may also engage in
manufacturing process (though mostly through outsourcing model) to come up
with their own private labels, and aided by technologies, manufacturers may
also engage in "direct sales".

Just my two cents to share with you


"Eric" <someone@idontwantspam.com> wrote in message
news:uQQUwbYAKHA.5020@TK2MSFTNGP04.phx.gbl...<!--coloro:blue--><span style="color:blue <!--/coloro-->
>
> "Michael Dobony" <survey@stopassaultnow.net> wrote in message
> news:1lm7yqskee0wq.1ddevvwkyfsbd$.dlg@40tude.net...<!--coloro:green--><span style="color:green <!--/coloro--><!--coloro:darkred--><span style="color:darkred <!--/coloro-->
>>>> How do you ask for your money back from a manufacturer installed
>>>> operating
>>>> system when there is only one operating system allowed by Microsoft? If
>>>> I
>>>> had a choice I would have bought XP, but I had NO choices available
>>>> except
>>>> a used computer with XP that was less than 1/2 the speed of this low
>>>> end
>>>> new computer. I didn't have time to do any real shopping as I needed
>>>> this
>>>> laptop for school after my last one died and was not worth rebuilding
>>>> again
>>>> (hand-me-down from my son, and it survived nearly a year in Nigeria).
>>>
>>> There's always a choice. I bought mine from Best Buy and I believe all
>>> of
>>> their machines had Vista on them, either Basic or Premium, but there
>>> were
>>> plenty of new PCs on the internet for sale with XP installed.
>>> Manufacturers don't install operating systems. If you mean retailer
>>> installed operating system, you would have to contact them for a refund.
>>> You could try asking Microsoft but most likely they'll refer you to
>>> whoever
>>> installed it.<!--colorc--><!--/colorc-->
>>
>> What planet are you from? Compaq, the MANUFACTURER, installs Windows on
>> their machines. Dell, the MANUFACTURER, installs Windows on their
>> machines.
>> Micro$$$$$$oft forbid the manufacturers from installing XP and demanded
>> that they only install Vista on their computers and even forbid them from
>> supporting XP downgrades. Yes, some OLDER and refurbished computers are
>> available on the internet with XP installed, but I did not have the time
>> available to search them out and wait for shipping. I had about 2 days
>> to
>> locate and take possession of it to have time to get my critical programs
>> installed before school started. In my case, thanks to Micro$$$oft's
>> arrogance and greed and illegal market control, Compaq does NOT support
>> XP
>> on my laptop.<!--colorc--><!--/colorc-->
>
> Dell is not a manufacturer. They're a retailer. Open your Dell PC and
> see whos' name is on the hard drive. PC retailers assemble PCs from parts
> made by manufacturers, and as is stated in the other response, Dell does
> offer new PCs with XP installed. Check here:
>
> I don't know of any physical Dell store, so I'm not sure if they could get
> you a new system in 2 days. If we knew where you are we could check if
> anyone in your immediate area offers new PCs with XP, but all you'd have
> to do is grab a phone book and ask around. If you're saying you live in
> the middle of nowhere with one PC store and they didn't offer any and you
> didn't care to drive to somewhere that did, that's your problem. I don't
> think it's MS' fault if your little PC store wants Vista to dominate the
> OS market. I also wonder why a school would give you just 2 days to find
> and setup a computer. Normally they can tell you months in advance what
> you'll need.
> <!--colorc--><!--/colorc-->

 

"Eric" <someone@idontwantspam.com> wrote in message
news:uQQUwbYAKHA.5020@TK2MSFTNGP04.phx.gbl...<!--coloro:blue--><span style="color:blue <!--/coloro-->
><!--coloro:green--><span style="color:green <!--/coloro-->
>> Dell is not a manufacturer. They're a retailer. Open your Dell PC and
>> see<!--colorc--><!--/colorc-->
> whos' name is on the hard drive. PC retailers assemble PCs from parts
> made by manufacturers, and as is stated in the other response, Dell does
> offer new PCs with XP installed. Check here:
>
> I don't know of any physical Dell store, so I'm not sure if they could get
> you a new system in 2 days. If we knew where you are we could check if
> anyone in your immediate area offers new PCs with XP, but all you'd have
> to do is grab a phone book and ask around. If you're saying you live in
> the middle of nowhere with one PC store and they didn't offer any and you
> didn't care to drive to somewhere that did, that's your problem. I don't
> think it's MS' fault if your little PC store wants Vista to dominate the
> OS market. I also wonder why a school would give you just 2 days to find
> and setup a computer. Normally they can tell you months in advance what
> you'll need.<!--colorc--><!--/colorc-->

Following your logic than companies like GM and Ford are not manufacturers
either. Strange logic you have.

Cheers,

Camper

 

Spook wrote:<!--coloro:blue--><span style="color:blue <!--/coloro-->
> I have never had automatic restarts with XP, but lots<!--coloro:green--><span style="color:green <!--/coloro-->
>> of them with Vista, at least 3 times a week. <!--colorc--><!--/colorc-->
>
> Since I let Vista install updates I have the same problem.
>
> I<!--coloro:green--><span style="color:green <!--/coloro-->
>> started out on computers on an early version of DOS <!--colorc--><!--/colorc-->
>
> Dos 6.2 and IBM's PC-DOS for me.
>
> 2.1
>
> I can only remember Win 3.1.<!--colorc--><!--/colorc-->
Dos 3.1

 

tom wrote:<!--coloro:blue--><span style="color:blue <!--/coloro-->
> Spook wrote:<!--coloro:green--><span style="color:green <!--/coloro-->
>> I have never had automatic restarts with XP, but lots<!--coloro:darkred--><span style="color:darkred <!--/coloro-->
>>> of them with Vista, at least 3 times a week. <!--colorc--><!--/colorc-->
>>
>> Since I let Vista install updates I have the same problem.
>>
>> I<!--coloro:darkred--><span style="color:darkred <!--/coloro-->
>>> started out on computers on an early version of DOS <!--colorc--><!--/colorc-->
>>
>> Dos 6.2 and IBM's PC-DOS for me.
>>
>> 2.1
>>
>> I can only remember Win 3.1.<!--colorc--><!--/colorc-->
> Dos 3.1<!--colorc--><!--/colorc-->
I started with whatever the original release version of DOS when IBM
announced its PC. Went through several versions of DOS, but when Win 3.1
had been around a short period I switched to it and loved it. Went to
95, 98, XP--each step an improvement. Then came Vista--from DOS to POS
in six steps.
Allen

 

On Fri, 10 Jul 2009 13:50:41 -0400, Eric wrote:
<!--coloro:blue--><span style="color:blue <!--/coloro-->
> "Michael Dobony" <survey@stopassaultnow.net> wrote in message
> news:1lm7yqskee0wq.1ddevvwkyfsbd$.dlg@40tude.net...<!--coloro:green--><span style="color:green <!--/coloro--><!--coloro:darkred--><span style="color:darkred <!--/coloro-->
>>>> How do you ask for your money back from a manufacturer installed
>>>> operating
>>>> system when there is only one operating system allowed by Microsoft? If
>>>> I
>>>> had a choice I would have bought XP, but I had NO choices available
>>>> except
>>>> a used computer with XP that was less than 1/2 the speed of this low end
>>>> new computer. I didn't have time to do any real shopping as I needed
>>>> this
>>>> laptop for school after my last one died and was not worth rebuilding
>>>> again
>>>> (hand-me-down from my son, and it survived nearly a year in Nigeria).
>>>
>>> There's always a choice. I bought mine from Best Buy and I believe all
>>> of
>>> their machines had Vista on them, either Basic or Premium, but there were
>>> plenty of new PCs on the internet for sale with XP installed.
>>> Manufacturers don't install operating systems. If you mean retailer
>>> installed operating system, you would have to contact them for a refund.
>>> You could try asking Microsoft but most likely they'll refer you to
>>> whoever
>>> installed it.<!--colorc--><!--/colorc-->
>>
>> What planet are you from? Compaq, the MANUFACTURER, installs Windows on
>> their machines. Dell, the MANUFACTURER, installs Windows on their
>> machines.
>> Micro$$$$$$oft forbid the manufacturers from installing XP and demanded
>> that they only install Vista on their computers and even forbid them from
>> supporting XP downgrades. Yes, some OLDER and refurbished computers are
>> available on the internet with XP installed, but I did not have the time
>> available to search them out and wait for shipping. I had about 2 days to
>> locate and take possession of it to have time to get my critical programs
>> installed before school started. In my case, thanks to Micro$$$oft's
>> arrogance and greed and illegal market control, Compaq does NOT support XP
>> on my laptop.<!--colorc--><!--/colorc-->
>
> Dell is not a manufacturer. They're a retailer. Open your Dell PC and see
> whos' name is on the hard drive. PC retailers assemble PCs from parts made
> by manufacturers, and as is stated in the other response, Dell does offer
> new PCs with XP installed. Check here:
>
> I don't know of any physical Dell store, so I'm not sure if they could get
> you a new system in 2 days. If we knew where you are we could check if
> anyone in your immediate area offers new PCs with XP, but all you'd have to
> do is grab a phone book and ask around. If you're saying you live in the
> middle of nowhere with one PC store and they didn't offer any and you didn't
> care to drive to somewhere that did, that's your problem. I don't think
> it's MS' fault if your little PC store wants Vista to dominate the OS
> market. I also wonder why a school would give you just 2 days to find and
> setup a computer. Normally they can tell you months in advance what you'll
> need.<!--colorc--><!--/colorc-->

GM is not a manufacturer, but a retailer because they buy parts from other
manufacturers. Also, Dell has problems with the power cord connector
breaking. I have a Best Buy and at the time, a Circuit City. I also
checked with Staples, Office Max, and Office Depot. I did not check with
dedicated PC stores as I didn't have the money for a custom built laptop.
NONE of the major manufacturers I checked on had any options for Windows
XP. Altec had a custom 1.5gz system with XP (Retail edition as they are
forbidden to sell the OEM editions if they want to sell Vista XP and XP was
no longer being manufactured) for about the same price as my Compaq 2.3
Turion X2 with double the RAM and HD. I understand that M$$$$ has
backpeddled and is now not restricting XP sales, as they did last August.

 

> GM is not a manufacturer, but a retailer because they buy parts from other<!--coloro:blue--><span style="color:blue <!--/coloro-->
> manufacturers.<!--colorc--><!--/colorc-->

I'm not trying to pull you down, but those manufacturers are not
manufacturers either because they also purchased from others, and those who
sold to them are not either because they also purchased from others, and so
on and so on.

In the end, who will be an manufacturer other than those who produced
everything from screws to capacitors to transistors to machineries and all
the way to a finished product?

But in today's highly specialized economic model, I double many companies,
if any, could survive with a fully self-contained ambition, which is similar
to a closed market economy mindset.

Incidentally, HP also provided with a downgrade right. But you are right
that it's more difficult to see one in retail channel, and it's more
demanded by business.



"Michael Dobony" <survey@stopassaultnow.net> wrote in message
news:z7d6v70jt4cf.1nn28w21v655z$.dlg@40tude.net...<!--coloro:blue--><span style="color:blue <!--/coloro-->
> On Fri, 10 Jul 2009 13:50:41 -0400, Eric wrote:
><!--coloro:green--><span style="color:green <!--/coloro-->
>> "Michael Dobony" <survey@stopassaultnow.net> wrote in message
>> news:1lm7yqskee0wq.1ddevvwkyfsbd$.dlg@40tude.net...<!--coloro:darkred--><span style="color:darkred <!--/coloro-->
>>>>> How do you ask for your money back from a manufacturer installed
>>>>> operating
>>>>> system when there is only one operating system allowed by Microsoft?
>>>>> If
>>>>> I
>>>>> had a choice I would have bought XP, but I had NO choices available
>>>>> except
>>>>> a used computer with XP that was less than 1/2 the speed of this low
>>>>> end
>>>>> new computer. I didn't have time to do any real shopping as I needed
>>>>> this
>>>>> laptop for school after my last one died and was not worth rebuilding
>>>>> again
>>>>> (hand-me-down from my son, and it survived nearly a year in Nigeria).
>>>>
>>>> There's always a choice. I bought mine from Best Buy and I believe all
>>>> of
>>>> their machines had Vista on them, either Basic or Premium, but there
>>>> were
>>>> plenty of new PCs on the internet for sale with XP installed.
>>>> Manufacturers don't install operating systems. If you mean retailer
>>>> installed operating system, you would have to contact them for a
>>>> refund.
>>>> You could try asking Microsoft but most likely they'll refer you to
>>>> whoever
>>>> installed it.
>>>
>>> What planet are you from? Compaq, the MANUFACTURER, installs Windows on
>>> their machines. Dell, the MANUFACTURER, installs Windows on their
>>> machines.
>>> Micro$$$$$$oft forbid the manufacturers from installing XP and demanded
>>> that they only install Vista on their computers and even forbid them
>>> from
>>> supporting XP downgrades. Yes, some OLDER and refurbished computers are
>>> available on the internet with XP installed, but I did not have the time
>>> available to search them out and wait for shipping. I had about 2 days
>>> to
>>> locate and take possession of it to have time to get my critical
>>> programs
>>> installed before school started. In my case, thanks to Micro$$$oft's
>>> arrogance and greed and illegal market control, Compaq does NOT support
>>> XP
>>> on my laptop.<!--colorc--><!--/colorc-->
>>
>> Dell is not a manufacturer. They're a retailer. Open your Dell PC and
>> see
>> whos' name is on the hard drive. PC retailers assemble PCs from parts
>> made
>> by manufacturers, and as is stated in the other response, Dell does offer
>> new PCs with XP installed. Check here:
>>
>> I don't know of any physical Dell store, so I'm not sure if they could
>> get
>> you a new system in 2 days. If we knew where you are we could check if
>> anyone in your immediate area offers new PCs with XP, but all you'd have
>> to
>> do is grab a phone book and ask around. If you're saying you live in the
>> middle of nowhere with one PC store and they didn't offer any and you
>> didn't
>> care to drive to somewhere that did, that's your problem. I don't think
>> it's MS' fault if your little PC store wants Vista to dominate the OS
>> market. I also wonder why a school would give you just 2 days to find
>> and
>> setup a computer. Normally they can tell you months in advance what
>> you'll
>> need.<!--colorc--><!--/colorc-->
>
> GM is not a manufacturer, but a retailer because they buy parts from other
> manufacturers. Also, Dell has problems with the power cord connector
> breaking. I have a Best Buy and at the time, a Circuit City. I also
> checked with Staples, Office Max, and Office Depot. I did not check with
> dedicated PC stores as I didn't have the money for a custom built laptop.
> NONE of the major manufacturers I checked on had any options for Windows
> XP. Altec had a custom 1.5gz system with XP (Retail edition as they are
> forbidden to sell the OEM editions if they want to sell Vista XP and XP
> was
> no longer being manufactured) for about the same price as my Compaq 2.3
> Turion X2 with double the RAM and HD. I understand that M$$$$ has
> backpeddled and is now not restricting XP sales, as they did last August. <!--colorc--><!--/colorc-->

 

On Sat, 11 Jul 2009 22:08:28 -0500, Michael Dobony
<survey@stopassaultnow.net> wrote:

<!--coloro:blue--><span style="color:blue <!--/coloro-->
>
>GM is not a manufacturer, but a retailer because they buy parts from other
>manufacturers. <!--colorc--><!--/colorc-->

Nonsense. The first point is that being a "manufacturer" does not
specifically prevent you from being a "retailer" or a "wholesaler" or
define you as one or the other.

A pure retailer is a firm like Kmart. They buy goods from wholesalers.
They sell them to end users at retail. Some of the wholesalers they
buy from may be manufacturers; Some may be purchasing manufactured
goods and reselling them. They may spec goods that hey have
manufactured for sale (e.g. Kmart's "American Fare" brand) but they do
not actually manufacturer. They buy completed goods and resell them to
consumers.

A pure wholesaler sells only to businesses that redistribute the
products to others who sell them at wholesale and/or retail. Some
people that sell wholesale products manufacturer them. Some purchase
the products from manufacturers and resell them. Most wholesalers
decline to sell to the retail market as that increases distribution
costs significantly. They prefer to sell in volume to other are
retailers. But there are exceptions.

A manufacturer builds products. They may purchase sub assemblies from
other manufacturers/wholesalers and assemble them. They may purchase
raw materials and manufacture something from those raw materials. Very
few own products from the raw material level to the finished product
level (since the decline of the robber barons, this has been
considered an ineffective way to do business). If you assemble
something, regardless of the source of the parts, you are generally a
manufacturer. Some exceptions apply and tax law has an impact.

There are all sorts of mixes. Auto manufacturers purchase many sub
assemblies from others. They are not retailers as they do not sell
directly to the end user. They sell cars through dealers as their
retail channel. GM may twist that if they start selling cars o Ebay
but I would be surprised if they did not set up a semi-autonomous
company to do the selling (much like they have GMAC Finance to finance
their car sales at dealers).

Dell does manufacture systems, dealing with wholesalers as suppliers.
The computer business in particular has become too specialized for
folks to survive by manufacturing their own sub assemblies. The days
of someone like DEC who designed chips, motherboards, hard drives,
networking hardware, etc, and manufacturer it all are gone. The
business model has changed significantly over time.There are some
remnants - companies designing and spec'ing certain parts - but it's
almost always outsourced for production now. Most companies follow
Warren Buffett's advice "do one thing and do it well".

Dell is a both a retailer and a wholesaler. This is very expensive
from a distribution viewpoint. But, with the Internet as their retail
channel, they are able to reduce costs and see to be making money at
it. Some other computer manufacturers are doing the same, some sell
only through a traditional wholesale channel.

 

Excellent post!
<!--coloro:blue--><span style="color:blue <!--/coloro-->
> Most companies follow
> Warren Buffett's advice "do one thing and do it well".<!--colorc--><!--/colorc-->

Yes, or to put it another way, focus on what you do best and let others do
what they do best.



"+Bob+" <nomailplease@example.com> wrote in message
news:gcti55poiqhmqenuo9ctn229h5qot20b7c@4ax.com...<!--coloro:blue--><span style="color:blue <!--/coloro-->
> On Sat, 11 Jul 2009 22:08:28 -0500, Michael Dobony
> <survey@stopassaultnow.net> wrote:
>
><!--coloro:green--><span style="color:green <!--/coloro-->
>>
>>GM is not a manufacturer, but a retailer because they buy parts from other
>>manufacturers.<!--colorc--><!--/colorc-->
>
> Nonsense. The first point is that being a "manufacturer" does not
> specifically prevent you from being a "retailer" or a "wholesaler" or
> define you as one or the other.
>
> A pure retailer is a firm like Kmart. They buy goods from wholesalers.
> They sell them to end users at retail. Some of the wholesalers they
> buy from may be manufacturers; Some may be purchasing manufactured
> goods and reselling them. They may spec goods that hey have
> manufactured for sale (e.g. Kmart's "American Fare" brand) but they do
> not actually manufacturer. They buy completed goods and resell them to
> consumers.
>
> A pure wholesaler sells only to businesses that redistribute the
> products to others who sell them at wholesale and/or retail. Some
> people that sell wholesale products manufacturer them. Some purchase
> the products from manufacturers and resell them. Most wholesalers
> decline to sell to the retail market as that increases distribution
> costs significantly. They prefer to sell in volume to other are
> retailers. But there are exceptions.
>
> A manufacturer builds products. They may purchase sub assemblies from
> other manufacturers/wholesalers and assemble them. They may purchase
> raw materials and manufacture something from those raw materials. Very
> few own products from the raw material level to the finished product
> level (since the decline of the robber barons, this has been
> considered an ineffective way to do business). If you assemble
> something, regardless of the source of the parts, you are generally a
> manufacturer. Some exceptions apply and tax law has an impact.
>
> There are all sorts of mixes. Auto manufacturers purchase many sub
> assemblies from others. They are not retailers as they do not sell
> directly to the end user. They sell cars through dealers as their
> retail channel. GM may twist that if they start selling cars o Ebay
> but I would be surprised if they did not set up a semi-autonomous
> company to do the selling (much like they have GMAC Finance to finance
> their car sales at dealers).
>
> Dell does manufacture systems, dealing with wholesalers as suppliers.
> The computer business in particular has become too specialized for
> folks to survive by manufacturing their own sub assemblies. The days
> of someone like DEC who designed chips, motherboards, hard drives,
> networking hardware, etc, and manufacturer it all are gone. The
> business model has changed significantly over time.There are some
> remnants - companies designing and spec'ing certain parts - but it's
> almost always outsourced for production now. Most companies follow
> Warren Buffett's advice "do one thing and do it well".
>
> Dell is a both a retailer and a wholesaler. This is very expensive
> from a distribution viewpoint. But, with the Internet as their retail
> channel, they are able to reduce costs and see to be making money at
> it. Some other computer manufacturers are doing the same, some sell
> only through a traditional wholesale channel.
>
> <!--colorc--><!--/colorc-->

 

+Bob+ wrote:<!--coloro:blue--><span style="color:blue <!--/coloro-->
> On Sat, 11 Jul 2009 22:08:28 -0500, Michael Dobony
> <survey@stopassaultnow.net> wrote:
>
> <!--coloro:green--><span style="color:green <!--/coloro-->
>> GM is not a manufacturer, but a retailer because they buy parts from other
>> manufacturers. <!--colorc--><!--/colorc-->
>
> Nonsense. The first point is that being a "manufacturer" does not
> specifically prevent you from being a "retailer" or a "wholesaler" or
> define you as one or the other.
>
> A pure retailer is a firm like Kmart. They buy goods from wholesalers.
> They sell them to end users at retail. Some of the wholesalers they
> buy from may be manufacturers; Some may be purchasing manufactured
> goods and reselling them. They may spec goods that hey have
> manufactured for sale (e.g. Kmart's "American Fare" brand) but they do
> not actually manufacturer. They buy completed goods and resell them to
> consumers.
>
> A pure wholesaler sells only to businesses that redistribute the
> products to others who sell them at wholesale and/or retail. Some
> people that sell wholesale products manufacturer them. Some purchase
> the products from manufacturers and resell them. Most wholesalers
> decline to sell to the retail market as that increases distribution
> costs significantly. They prefer to sell in volume to other are
> retailers. But there are exceptions.
>
> A manufacturer builds products. They may purchase sub assemblies from
> other manufacturers/wholesalers and assemble them. They may purchase
> raw materials and manufacture something from those raw materials. Very
> few own products from the raw material level to the finished product
> level (since the decline of the robber barons, this has been
> considered an ineffective way to do business). If you assemble
> something, regardless of the source of the parts, you are generally a
> manufacturer. Some exceptions apply and tax law has an impact.
>
> There are all sorts of mixes. Auto manufacturers purchase many sub
> assemblies from others. They are not retailers as they do not sell
> directly to the end user. They sell cars through dealers as their
> retail channel. GM may twist that if they start selling cars o Ebay
> but I would be surprised if they did not set up a semi-autonomous
> company to do the selling (much like they have GMAC Finance to finance
> their car sales at dealers).
>
> Dell does manufacture systems, dealing with wholesalers as suppliers.
> The computer business in particular has become too specialized for
> folks to survive by manufacturing their own sub assemblies. The days
> of someone like DEC who designed chips, motherboards, hard drives,
> networking hardware, etc, and manufacturer it all are gone. The
> business model has changed significantly over time.There are some
> remnants - companies designing and spec'ing certain parts - but it's
> almost always outsourced for production now. Most companies follow
> Warren Buffett's advice "do one thing and do it well".
>
> Dell is a both a retailer and a wholesaler. This is very expensive
> from a distribution viewpoint. But, with the Internet as their retail
> channel, they are able to reduce costs and see to be making money at
> it. Some other computer manufacturers are doing the same, some sell
> only through a traditional wholesale channel.
>
> <!--colorc--><!--/colorc-->
One of the great features of the IBM PC design is that it included very
little that was made by IBM. The person in charge of the design project
wanted to get it on the market as soon as possible, so he used all sorts
of parts that were already designed and tested. If he had followed the
established rules of IBM, including using OP's parts and getting
unanimous approval from all division heads the IBM PC might well have
been delayed. He was "rewarded" by being assigned to a job with a fancy
title but no real duties or responsibilities and was killed in a plane
crash not long afterward. I wish I could remember his name.

This approach made for actual competition, allowing others to design
competing systems. Now, if I want, say, a hard disc, I just go to
Frys's, NewEgg, etc and pick any of many; the same for just about any
other part.

Allen

 

"Mike Dobony" <survey@stopassaultnow.net> wrote in message
news:1x9pbw2mkqkz5.wwfngv76nv51$.dlg@40tude.net...<!--coloro:blue--><span style="color:blue <!--/coloro-->
> On Tue, 07 Jul 2009 17:33:56 -0400, +Bob+ wrote:
><!--coloro:green--><span style="color:green <!--/coloro-->
>> On Tue, 7 Jul 2009 16:15:16 -0500, Michael Dobony
>> <survey@stopassaultnow.net> wrote:
>>
>><!--coloro:darkred--><span style="color:darkred <!--/coloro-->
>>>I believer it is the same stupid mentality of those who actually think
>>>Obama is going a great job, even though he put a deliberate tax evader in
>>>charge of the IRS, abortionist employee governor in charge of the
>>>Department of Health and Human Services, nominated a bigot for a Supreme
>>>Court justice, and is doing more of what caused the economic crisis in
>>>the
>>>first place (just the tip of the Hitler-modeling party animal president).<!--colorc--><!--/colorc-->
>>
>>
>> Maybe you should ask Rush Limbaugh or his buddy Ann for computer
>> advice. That seems to be where you get your news.<!--colorc--><!--/colorc-->
>
> Rush is an idiot. I got my news from MSN.<!--colorc--><!--/colorc-->

PLONK!!!