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Free Anti-Virus & Other Safety Software

Discussion in 'General Malware And Security' started by ~BD~, Aug 13, 2008.

  1. Leonard Grey

    Leonard Grey Guest

    Really effective protection requires an enormous investment (in people,
    computers and software; maybe a building to house the above.) How does a
    free security suite pay for all that?

    Now there are circumstances that might enable free security software to
    be as effective as paid security software. For example, if a company
    sells high-priced enterprise security software to businesses, they may
    earn enough that they can afford to provide free versions of the
    software to individuals - in fact, that might be a marketing strategy.

    There are also organizations that sell paid and free versions of
    security software - no doubt the paid-for licenses subsidize the free
    licenses. But the free licenses lack features that many may not want to
    do without. Often, the support is reduced.

    We are all aware of free software that can stay free because there is a
    massive number of volunteers who combine their talents to produce a
    top-quality product. Think of Linux, or Mozilla. Other free software
    earns donations for the developer, although it's tough to get a mortgage
    on the basis of donations.

    Absent the above circumstances, I would not personally put my faith in
    free security software. At the end of the day (or the month) somebody
    needs to get paid for their efforts.

    But that's just my opinion. In any case, security software isn't the
    be-all and end-all of security anyway:

    "Ultimately, the only protection against phishing, forged Web pages,
    downloading malware, and other threats is the technology located between
    the user's ears."

    Mitch Wagner, Information Week
    November 21, 2007
    ---
    Leonard Grey
    Errare humanum est

    S. Pidgorny <MVP> wrote:<!--coloro:blue--><span style="color:blue <!--/coloro-->
    > G'day:
    >
    > "FromTheRafters" <erratic@ne.rr.com> wrote in message
    > news:uJeNimk$IHA.1152@TK2MSFTNGP04.phx.gbl...
    > <!--coloro:green--><span style="color:green <!--/coloro-->
    >> On Vista I have Avast! anti-virus (I let the McAfee free trial expire).
    >> On XP I have Norton, and when it expires I will install AntiVir as
    >> the anti-virus. Both of those are the free versions, but I am not a
    >> high risk user - so they'll do just fine.<!--colorc--><!--/colorc-->
    >
    > Even for a high-risk users there is no clear advantage of a paid product
    > over freeware. Phone support?
    > <!--colorc--><!--/colorc-->
     
  2. "S. Pidgorny <MVP>" <slavickp@yahoo.com> wrote in message
    news:%23rxCPSr$IHA.2072@TK2MSFTNGP02.phx.gbl...<!--coloro:blue--><span style="color:blue <!--/coloro-->
    > G'day:
    >
    > "FromTheRafters" <erratic@ne.rr.com> wrote in message
    > news:uJeNimk$IHA.1152@TK2MSFTNGP04.phx.gbl...
    ><!--coloro:green--><span style="color:green <!--/coloro-->
    >> On Vista I have Avast! anti-virus (I let the McAfee free trial expire).
    >> On XP I have Norton, and when it expires I will install AntiVir as
    >> the anti-virus. Both of those are the free versions, but I am not a
    >> high risk user - so they'll do just fine.<!--colorc--><!--/colorc-->
    >
    > Even for a high-risk users there is no clear advantage of a paid product
    > over freeware. Phone support?<!--colorc--><!--/colorc-->

    I'm low risk because of my computing habits (a little) and the
    low value of my data.

    High risk users should be willing to pay for the support behind
    the software product, and in most cases will also get a superior
    product to the free version. I refer specifically to anti-virus here
    because it is the work of people behind the scenes that makes
    a product superior. Although much good work is done by the
    freeware community, they would have to dedicate far too much
    time in order to amass the same amount of knowledge that some
    payware companies have over decades of evolution. Not to
    mention the ongoing research and real world sampling people
    would have to do - and people gotta eat! [​IMG])
     
  3. Kayman

    Kayman Guest

    On Fri, 15 Aug 2008 10:09:29 -0400, Leonard Grey wrote:
    <!--coloro:blue--><span style="color:blue <!--/coloro-->
    > Really effective protection requires an enormous investment (in people,
    > computers and software; maybe a building to house the above.) How does a
    > free security suite pay for all that?
    >
    > Now there are circumstances that might enable free security software to
    > be as effective as paid security software. For example, if a company
    > sells high-priced enterprise security software to businesses, they may
    > earn enough that they can afford to provide free versions of the
    > software to individuals - in fact, that might be a marketing strategy.
    >
    > There are also organizations that sell paid and free versions of
    > security software - no doubt the paid-for licenses subsidize the free
    > licenses. But the free licenses lack features that many may not want to
    > do without. Often, the support is reduced.
    >
    > We are all aware of free software that can stay free because there is a
    > massive number of volunteers who combine their talents to produce a
    > top-quality product. Think of Linux, or Mozilla. Other free software
    > earns donations for the developer, although it's tough to get a mortgage
    > on the basis of donations.
    >
    > Absent the above circumstances, I would not personally put my faith in
    > free security software. At the end of the day (or the month) somebody
    > needs to get paid for their efforts.
    >
    > But that's just my opinion. In any case, security software isn't the
    > be-all and end-all of security anyway:
    >
    > "Ultimately, the only protection against phishing, forged Web pages,
    > downloading malware, and other threats is the technology located between
    > the user's ears."
    >
    > Mitch Wagner, Information Week
    > November 21, 2007
    > Leonard Grey
    > Errare humanum est<!--colorc--><!--/colorc-->

    Well LG, Mitch Wagner either errs or is biased. I suspect the latter!
    I generally check credentials of authors writing articles/messages in
    advertisement sponsored publications.

    Mitch Wagner is an executive editor at InformationWeek.
    He would be responsible for the editorial aspects of publication and
    determines the final content of what is written in InformationWeek.
    I guess that like most magazines they rely on the advertisement dollar
    almighty!

    I take these messages with a ton of salt; And would advise anybody else to
    be extremely cautious of scaremongering tactics.

    BTW, what would happen if there was no free AV ware available? Do you
    realistically think that every user on this planet would go out and
    purchase one?
    Me thinks that sooner or later the net would come to a grinding halt; A
    great motivation (foresight?) for the makers of AV applications to offer
    workable free versions (albeit with limited features) of their products.
    Nuff' said :)
     
  4. Kayman

    Kayman Guest

    On Fri, 15 Aug 2008 18:54:31 +1000, S. Pidgorny <MVP> wrote:
    <!--coloro:blue--><span style="color:blue <!--/coloro-->
    > G'day:
    >
    > "FromTheRafters" <erratic@ne.rr.com> wrote in message
    > news:uJeNimk$IHA.1152@TK2MSFTNGP04.phx.gbl...
    > <!--coloro:green--><span style="color:green <!--/coloro-->
    >> On Vista I have Avast! anti-virus (I let the McAfee free trial expire).
    >> On XP I have Norton, and when it expires I will install AntiVir as
    >> the anti-virus. Both of those are the free versions, but I am not a
    >> high risk user - so they'll do just fine.<!--colorc--><!--/colorc-->
    >
    > Even for a high-risk users there is no clear advantage of a paid product
    > over freeware. Phone support?<!--colorc--><!--/colorc-->

    Agree wholeheartedly. One only has to follow websites specializing in
    comparing AV programs. Or follow (uncountable) newsgroup messages in
    relation to WLOC, retail version of Norton, McAfee and TrenMicro...For the
    average homeuser free version of AntiVir or Avast are adequate (IMO).
     
  5. ~BD~

    ~BD~ Guest

  6. jen

    jen Guest

    Re: The truth.

    "David H. Lipman" <DLipman~nospam~@Verizon.Net> wrote in message
    news:upVpdRY$IHA.872@TK2MSFTNGP05.phx.gbl...<!--coloro:blue--><span style="color:blue <!--/coloro--><!--coloro:green--><span style="color:green <!--/coloro-->
    >> From: "Tom [Pepper] Willett" <tom@youreadaisyifyoudo.com>
    >> | But, you are a tin-foil hatted troll that has been banned from
    >> several
    >> | groups.
    >> Y E S !
    >> However, the original post was not spam.><!--colorc--><!--/colorc--><!--colorc--><!--/colorc-->

    On the Effectiveness of Aluminium Foil Helmets:
    An Empirical Study


    -jen
     
  7. ~BD~

    ~BD~ Guest

    Re: The truth.

    Thanks for that illuminating lead, Jen! [​IMG]

    How are things over on U2U ........... Annexcafe.com ?

    Is Peter Foldes fully recovered now? Please give him my regards - he doesn't
    respond to me here on the MS groups.

    Dave


    "jen" <jen@example.com> wrote in message
    news:e6UQas6$IHA.4512@TK2MSFTNGP04.phx.gbl...
    <snip>
    <!--coloro:blue--><span style="color:blue <!--/coloro-->
    > On the Effectiveness of Aluminium Foil Helmets:
    > An Empirical Study
    >
    >
    > -jen
    >
    > <!--colorc--><!--/colorc-->
     
  8. ~BD~

    ~BD~ Guest

  9. Dan

    Dan Guest

    Thanks. I am using Windows 98 Second Edition on a daily basis now. I also
    use Windows XP Professional and have briefly tried Ubuntu Linux. I have
    Windows Vista Home Premium on another machine. I now know that Windows 98
    Second Edition is a safe internal alternative because the most the bad guys
    have been able to do to me so far is just the Denial of Service error and
    that just makes me laugh since whoever the hackers were of the APS network,
    they certainly appeared to know what they were looking for and how to get it
    quickly but with 98 Second Edition all they could do was the Denial of
    Service Error because 9x consumer source code is meant as a stand-a-lone
    source code and not meant to be networked with lots of other machines and
    that is why in my opinion it was a great lose for all of us not to have
    Windows 98 Second Edition support from Microsoft anymore.

    Heck, all anybody has to do is check out secunia.com and research the
    vulnerabilities to see which software has vulnerabilities and which software
    has had their vulnerabilities patched. It is quite simple to do the research
    from the search box.

    It now appears that by the end of the year --- many 3rd party solutions will
    be ending as well --- for Windows 98 Second Edition -- sad to say -- and I
    hope Microsoft will sell their 9x source code to DHS because we need all the
    help that we can get and it is such a loss not to take the full potential of
    an operating system that has its roots in Disk Operating System as a
    maintenance operating system at least until Microsoft is able to give us a
    viable replacement for the NT source code which users seem to forget was
    panned by early Microsoft Engineers as the inferior source code because of
    its lack of the internal safety of Disk Operating System.

    The needed solution to the industry's problems are a combination of closed
    and open source technologies that are needed for the future. The industry
    has recognized the threat posed by DNS Pollution. Unfortunately, the concern
    lies now mainly with the consumer practicing the proper methods and not just
    enabling remote source code to be viewed by default, reading all emails in
    plain text only at least initially to understand the threat matrix, keeping
    their machines fully patched, etc.

    The needed solution, in my view for what it is worth, would be a NT external
    secure front (Vista), a 9x internal safety front (Windows 98 Second Edition)
    with open source solutions like Mozilla Firefox (2.0.x) with its 256 bit AES
    encryption even within Windows 98 Second Edition that Internet Explorer lacks
    with Windows XP Professional but has with Windows Vista Internet Explorer as
    well as using programs like SpywareBlaster that prevent baddies from even
    getting onto your computer. I think Gary S. Terhune, Chris Quirke, and
    Robear, all Microsoft MVP's are really good at understanding these areas.











    etc. --- I could go on all day providing web-sites but I think Microsoft,
    US-Cert, and others get the points if interested




    "Kayman" wrote:
    <!--coloro:blue--><span style="color:blue <!--/coloro-->
    > On Thu, 14 Aug 2008 07:06:02 -0700, Dan wrote:
    > <!--coloro:green--><span style="color:green <!--/coloro-->
    > > True, I hate the craplets and would also go with a clean install of my own
    > > and a customized machine if and when realistic but I know that cannot be
    > > realistic for big businesses. I like SpywareBlaster and Spybot Search and
    > > Destroy for anti-spyware.<!--colorc--><!--/colorc-->
    >
    > You could add SAS to your arsenal of A-S apps.:
    > SuperAntispyware - Free
    >

    > <!--coloro:green--><span style="color:green <!--/coloro-->
    > > I like AVG 7.5 for anti-virus. <!--colorc--><!--/colorc-->
    >
    > AVG lost its lustre. Good alternatives are:
    > Avira AntiVir® Personal - FREE Antivirus
    >

    > (The free version won't scan your emails.)
    > You may wish to consider removing the 'AntiVir Nagscreen'
    >

    > or
    > Free antivirus - avast! 4 Home Edition
    > It includes ANTI-SPYWARE protection, certified by the West Coast Labs
    > Checkmark process, and ANTI-ROOTKIT DETECTION based on the best-in class
    > GMER technology.
    >

    > (Choose Custom Installation and under Resident
    > Protection, uncheck: Internet Mail and Outlook/Exchange.)
    >
    > Why You Don't Need Your Anti-Virus Program to Scan Your E-Mail
    >

    > <!--coloro:green--><span style="color:green <!--/coloro-->
    > > I am still undecided about Windows Live One Care but I am using
    > > it on a trial basis for now.<!--colorc--><!--/colorc-->
    >
    > IMO, WLOC is not worth having; Good quality AV apps. are freely available
    > including the additions it (WLOC) incorporates.
    > <!--coloro:green--><span style="color:green <!--/coloro-->
    > > What about everyone else and what are your security and safety measures
    > > that you use to protect your computers. Thanks in advance for the replies.<!--colorc--><!--/colorc-->
    >
    > If you are *really* concerned about security measures you may (as an
    > average homeuser) wish to consider this:
    >
    > For WinXP the most dependable defenses are:
    > 1. Do not work as Administrator; For day-to-day work routinely use a
    > Limited User Account (LUA).
    > 2. Secure (Harden) your operating system.
    > 3. Don't expose services to public networks.
    > 4. Keep your operating system (and all software on it) updated/patched.
    > (Got SP3 yet?).
    > 5. Reconsider the usage of IE and OE.
    > 5a.Secure (Harden) Internet Explorer.
    > 6. Review your installed 3rd party software applications/utilities; Remove
    > clutter, *including* 3rd party software personal (so-called) firewall
    > application (PFW) - the one which claims:
    > "It can stop/control malicious outbound traffic".
    > 7. If on dial-up Internet connection, activate the build-in firewall and
    > configure Windows not to use TCP/IP as transport protocol for NetBIOS,
    > SMB and RPC, thus leaving TCP/UDP ports 135,137-139 and 445 (the most
    > exploited Windows networking weak point) closed.
    > 7a.If on high-speed Internet connection use a router.
    > For the average homeuser it is suggested blocking both TCP and UDP ports
    > 135 ~ 139 and 445 on the router and implement countermeasures against
    > DNSChanger. (Is the Firmware of your router up-to-date?).
    > And (just in case) Wired Equivalent Privacy (WEP) has been superseded by
    > Wi-Fi Protected Access (WPA).
    > 8. Routinely practice Safe-Hex.
    >
    > Also, ensure you do:
    > a. Regularly back-up data/files.
    > b. Familiarize yourself with crash recovery tools and re-installing your
    > operating system (OS).
    > c. Utilize a good-quality real-time anti-virus application and some vital
    > system monitoring utilities/applications.
    > d. Keep abreast of the latest developments.
    >
    > And finally:
    > Most computer magazines and/or (computer) specialized websites are biased
    > i.e. heavily weighted towards the (advertisement) dollar almighty!
    > Therefore:
    > a. Be cautious selecting software applications touted in publications
    > relying on advertisement revenue.
    > b. Do take their test-results of various software with a considerable
    > amount of salt!
    > c. Which also applies to their 'investigative' in-depth test reports
    > related to any software applications.
    > d. Investigate claims made by software manufacturer *prior* downloading
    > their software; Subscribing to noncommercial-type publications,
    > specialized newsgroups and/or fora (to some extend) are a great way to
    > find out the 'nitty-gritties' and to consider various options available.
    >
    > The least preferred defenses are:
    > Myriads of popular anti-whatever applications and staying ignorant.
    > <!--colorc--><!--/colorc-->
     
  10. Dan

    Dan Guest

    RE: An ounce of prevention is worth a pound of cure

    MalWareBytes is a good product but Adaware SE just is terrible in my opinion
    now because of its false positives --- it destroyed my sister Kate's computer
    because of false positives and so I do not suggest using such an inferior and
    crappy product as Adaware SE. The rest of the suggestions on the web-site
    seem okay.

    "~BD~" wrote:
    <!--coloro:blue--><span style="color:blue <!--/coloro-->
    > Thanks Milo! (and Anteaus!)
    >
    > Another good site to explore here:-
    >
    >
    >
    > Dave
    >
    > --
    >
    > "Milo" <jfcoel@hotmail.com> wrote in message
    > news:43611A9A-09AE-4ABE-B3CE-B9352BE931B2@microsoft.com...<!--coloro:green--><span style="color:green <!--/coloro-->
    > > try this site for Security/Safety Software
    > >
    > >

    > >
    > >

    > >
    > >
    > >
    > > "Anteaus" <Anteaus@discussions.microsoft.com> wrote in message
    > > news:D5DC6EDE-5EC4-4BA6-A203-05B8F1C3449C@microsoft.com...<!--coloro:darkred--><span style="color:darkred <!--/coloro-->
    > >>
    > >> The point the OP makes about AV software is a very real one. AV software
    > >> is
    > >> sold by way of 'push install' onto new computers, not by consumer choice,
    > >> and
    > >> certainly not by quality ratings. In many cases the free offerings ARE
    > >> better in every respect than the expensive, foisted ones.
    > >>
    > >> "~BD~" wrote:
    > >>
    > >> Yet it's possible to get legal,
    > >>> professional quality anti-virus and other protective software,
    > >>> absolutely
    > >>> free.
    > >><!--colorc--><!--/colorc-->
    > > <!--colorc--><!--/colorc-->
    >
    >
    > <!--colorc--><!--/colorc-->
     
  11. On Tue, 19 Aug 2008 03:17:29 -0700, Dan wrote:
    <!--coloro:blue--><span style="color:blue <!--/coloro-->
    > and I
    > hope Microsoft will sell their 9x source code to DHS because we need all the
    > help that we can get and it is such a loss not to take the full potential of
    > an operating system that has its roots in Disk Operating System as a
    > maintenance operating system<!--colorc--><!--/colorc-->

    This won't happen.
    <!--coloro:blue--><span style="color:blue <!--/coloro-->
    > at least until Microsoft is able to give us a
    > viable replacement for the NT source code which users seem to forget was
    > panned by early Microsoft Engineers as the inferior source code because of
    > its lack of the internal safety of Disk Operating System.<!--colorc--><!--/colorc-->

    Sorry, but this is a load of crap.

    --
    Paul Adare
    MVP - Identity Lifecycle Manager

    No line available at 300 baud.
     
  12. Kayman

    Kayman Guest

    On Tue, 19 Aug 2008 03:17:29 -0700, Dan wrote:
    <!--coloro:blue--><span style="color:blue <!--/coloro-->
    > Thanks. I am using Windows 98 Second Edition on a daily basis now. I also
    > use Windows XP Professional and have briefly tried Ubuntu Linux. I have
    > Windows Vista Home Premium on another machine. I now know that Windows 98
    > Second Edition is a safe internal alternative because the most the bad guys
    > have been able to do to me so far is just the Denial of Service error and
    > that just makes me laugh since whoever the hackers were of the APS network,
    > they certainly appeared to know what they were looking for and how to get it
    > quickly but with 98 Second Edition all they could do was the Denial of
    > Service Error because 9x consumer source code is meant as a stand-a-lone
    > source code and not meant to be networked with lots of other machines and
    > that is why in my opinion it was a great lose for all of us not to have
    > Windows 98 Second Edition support from Microsoft anymore. <!--colorc--><!--/colorc-->

    I do banking and trade in stocks etc. and wouldn't feel safe using an
    unsupported and outdated operating system.
    <!--coloro:blue--><span style="color:blue <!--/coloro-->
    > Heck, all anybody has to do is check out secunia.com and research the
    > vulnerabilities to see which software has vulnerabilities and which software
    > has had their vulnerabilities patched. It is quite simple to do the research
    > from the search box.<!--colorc--><!--/colorc-->

    Well, it's a PC! And provided the OS is kept up-to-date, use common sense,
    a PC can be configured to withstand attacks.
    <!--coloro:blue--><span style="color:blue <!--/coloro-->
    > It now appears that by the end of the year --- many 3rd party solutions will
    > be ending as well --- for Windows 98 Second Edition -- sad to say -- and I
    > hope Microsoft will sell their 9x source code to DHS because we need all the
    > help that we can get and it is such a loss not to take the full potential of
    > an operating system that has its roots in Disk Operating System as a
    > maintenance operating system at least until Microsoft is able to give us a
    > viable replacement for the NT source code which users seem to forget was
    > panned by early Microsoft Engineers as the inferior source code because of
    > its lack of the internal safety of Disk Operating System.<!--colorc--><!--/colorc-->

    As I said, you can configure NT based OS to your advantage.
    <!--coloro:blue--><span style="color:blue <!--/coloro-->
    > The needed solution to the industry's problems are a combination of closed
    > and open source technologies that are needed for the future. The industry
    > has recognized the threat posed by DNS Pollution. Unfortunately, the concern
    > lies now mainly with the consumer practicing the proper methods and not just
    > enabling remote source code to be viewed by default, reading all emails in
    > plain text only at least initially to understand the threat matrix, keeping
    > their machines fully patched, etc. <!--colorc--><!--/colorc-->

    The technology is freely available.
    <!--coloro:blue--><span style="color:blue <!--/coloro-->
    > The needed solution, in my view for what it is worth, would be a NT external
    > secure front (Vista), a 9x internal safety front (Windows 98 Second Edition)
    > with open source solutions like Mozilla Firefox (2.0.x) with its 256 bit AES
    > encryption even within Windows 98 Second Edition that Internet Explorer lacks
    > with Windows XP Professional but has with Windows Vista Internet Explorer as
    > well as using programs like SpywareBlaster that prevent baddies from even
    > getting onto your computer. I think Gary S. Terhune, Chris Quirke, and
    > Robear, all Microsoft MVP's are really good at understanding these areas.<!--colorc--><!--/colorc-->

    They sure do. But even they have different views with respect to computer
    'cum' Internet security and security related software. Sadly, not too many
    advocating the use of LUA etc., oh well.

    Cheers :)
     
  13. Dan

    Dan Guest

    Thanks for your reply, Kayman. I hope the future will include open and
    closed source technologies with NT, 9x, Linux/Unix and we need solutions and
    not more complaining. The thing is that Microsoft is the best one to rally
    the troops and support this kind of leadership via a new source code. I can
    only hope that this will be a reality someday but not in the case of Windows
    7 apparently. <same old source code with new features -- it really is a
    tired source code in my opinion for what little worth it is to so many>
    Of course, 9x consumer source code is not geared for businesses and
    networking and has less services so the hacking potential is much less as
    well as not having remote access and other stuff that provides the larger
    surface area of Windows 2000 and XP. Fortunately, Windows Vista is indeed
    much stronger in external defense than 2000 and XP and with SP1 it is much
    better in terms of backwards compatibility but I see Vista as still a work in
    progress although it really is coming along great. My Ipod Mini 2nd
    generation and using it with Windows Vista Home Premium 32 bit with SP1 and
    fully updated now plays fine and did not play the Itunues originally until
    the updates by Apple and Microsoft were provided.
    Ubuntu Linux definately has potential for the future and I see it as an
    exciting growth area.
    Apple in my opinion has made me very annoyed because they continue to push
    Safari which is a crappy web browser imo on Windows users willy nilly and
    without any regard for their machines. In addition, Apple has tied Itunues
    with Quicktime and you have to keep Quicktime if you want to use Itunes and
    Quicktime keeps having security vulnerabilities. In addition, Apple
    originally pushed Safari as an update when it was new software and Safari is
    terrible and suffers from constant security vulnerabilities. Finally, Apple
    also ties Bonjour in with Quicktime and Itunes and while not required is
    annoying because it is just another avenue for a cyber hack and hopefully the
    U.S. Justice Department will be willing to investigate Apple as they did to
    Microsoft back in 1998 for anti-trust issues because if Microsoft was
    anti-trust for tying Internet Explorer with Windows 98 then how much more is
    Apple breaking user agreements by shoveling all their tied together junk down
    Windows user's throats. grr, I just hope that someday Apple's pride will
    lead to its being put in its place by the federal government because the
    industry sometimes just cannot regulate itself.


    "Kayman" wrote:
    <!--coloro:blue--><span style="color:blue <!--/coloro-->
    > On Tue, 19 Aug 2008 03:17:29 -0700, Dan wrote:
    > <!--coloro:green--><span style="color:green <!--/coloro-->
    > > Thanks. I am using Windows 98 Second Edition on a daily basis now. I also
    > > use Windows XP Professional and have briefly tried Ubuntu Linux. I have
    > > Windows Vista Home Premium on another machine. I now know that Windows 98
    > > Second Edition is a safe internal alternative because the most the bad guys
    > > have been able to do to me so far is just the Denial of Service error and
    > > that just makes me laugh since whoever the hackers were of the APS network,
    > > they certainly appeared to know what they were looking for and how to get it
    > > quickly but with 98 Second Edition all they could do was the Denial of
    > > Service Error because 9x consumer source code is meant as a stand-a-lone
    > > source code and not meant to be networked with lots of other machines and
    > > that is why in my opinion it was a great lose for all of us not to have
    > > Windows 98 Second Edition support from Microsoft anymore. <!--colorc--><!--/colorc-->
    >
    > I do banking and trade in stocks etc. and wouldn't feel safe using an
    > unsupported and outdated operating system.
    > <!--coloro:green--><span style="color:green <!--/coloro-->
    > > Heck, all anybody has to do is check out secunia.com and research the
    > > vulnerabilities to see which software has vulnerabilities and which software
    > > has had their vulnerabilities patched. It is quite simple to do the research
    > > from the search box.<!--colorc--><!--/colorc-->
    >
    > Well, it's a PC! And provided the OS is kept up-to-date, use common sense,
    > a PC can be configured to withstand attacks.
    > <!--coloro:green--><span style="color:green <!--/coloro-->
    > > It now appears that by the end of the year --- many 3rd party solutions will
    > > be ending as well --- for Windows 98 Second Edition -- sad to say -- and I
    > > hope Microsoft will sell their 9x source code to DHS because we need all the
    > > help that we can get and it is such a loss not to take the full potential of
    > > an operating system that has its roots in Disk Operating System as a
    > > maintenance operating system at least until Microsoft is able to give us a
    > > viable replacement for the NT source code which users seem to forget was
    > > panned by early Microsoft Engineers as the inferior source code because of
    > > its lack of the internal safety of Disk Operating System.<!--colorc--><!--/colorc-->
    >
    > As I said, you can configure NT based OS to your advantage.
    > <!--coloro:green--><span style="color:green <!--/coloro-->
    > > The needed solution to the industry's problems are a combination of closed
    > > and open source technologies that are needed for the future. The industry
    > > has recognized the threat posed by DNS Pollution. Unfortunately, the concern
    > > lies now mainly with the consumer practicing the proper methods and not just
    > > enabling remote source code to be viewed by default, reading all emails in
    > > plain text only at least initially to understand the threat matrix, keeping
    > > their machines fully patched, etc. <!--colorc--><!--/colorc-->
    >
    > The technology is freely available.
    > <!--coloro:green--><span style="color:green <!--/coloro-->
    > > The needed solution, in my view for what it is worth, would be a NT external
    > > secure front (Vista), a 9x internal safety front (Windows 98 Second Edition)
    > > with open source solutions like Mozilla Firefox (2.0.x) with its 256 bit AES
    > > encryption even within Windows 98 Second Edition that Internet Explorer lacks
    > > with Windows XP Professional but has with Windows Vista Internet Explorer as
    > > well as using programs like SpywareBlaster that prevent baddies from even
    > > getting onto your computer. I think Gary S. Terhune, Chris Quirke, and
    > > Robear, all Microsoft MVP's are really good at understanding these areas.<!--colorc--><!--/colorc-->
    >
    > They sure do. But even they have different views with respect to computer
    > 'cum' Internet security and security related software. Sadly, not too many
    > advocating the use of LUA etc., oh well.
    >
    > Cheers :)
    > <!--colorc--><!--/colorc-->
     
  14. ~BD~

    ~BD~ Guest

    Re: An ounce of prevention is worth a pound of cure

    Thanks for posting your view, Dan.

    BD

    --
    "Dan" <Dan@discussions.microsoft.com> wrote in message
    news:28EB1CE6-FCA4-4679-80D3-3E7C44F6BA21@microsoft.com...<!--coloro:blue--><span style="color:blue <!--/coloro-->
    > MalWareBytes is a good product but Adaware SE just is terrible in my
    > opinion
    > now because of its false positives --- it destroyed my sister Kate's
    > computer
    > because of false positives and so I do not suggest using such an inferior
    > and
    > crappy product as Adaware SE. The rest of the suggestions on the web-site
    > seem okay.
    >
    > "~BD~" wrote:
    ><!--coloro:green--><span style="color:green <!--/coloro-->
    >> Thanks Milo! (and Anteaus!)
    >>
    >> Another good site to explore here:-
    >>
    >>
    >>
    >> Dave
    >>
    >> --
    >>
    >> "Milo" <jfcoel@hotmail.com> wrote in message
    >> news:43611A9A-09AE-4ABE-B3CE-B9352BE931B2@microsoft.com...<!--coloro:darkred--><span style="color:darkred <!--/coloro-->
    >> > try this site for Security/Safety Software
    >> >
    >> >

    >> >
    >> >

    >> >
    >> >
    >> >
    >> > "Anteaus" <Anteaus@discussions.microsoft.com> wrote in message
    >> > news:D5DC6EDE-5EC4-4BA6-A203-05B8F1C3449C@microsoft.com...
    >> >>
    >> >> The point the OP makes about AV software is a very real one. AV
    >> >> software
    >> >> is
    >> >> sold by way of 'push install' onto new computers, not by consumer
    >> >> choice,
    >> >> and
    >> >> certainly not by quality ratings. In many cases the free offerings
    >> >> ARE
    >> >> better in every respect than the expensive, foisted ones.
    >> >>
    >> >> "~BD~" wrote:
    >> >>
    >> >> Yet it's possible to get legal,
    >> >>> professional quality anti-virus and other protective software,
    >> >>> absolutely
    >> >>> free.
    >> >>
    >> ><!--colorc--><!--/colorc-->
    >>
    >>
    >><!--colorc--><!--/colorc-->
    > <!--colorc--><!--/colorc-->
     
  15. Dan

    Dan Guest

    Thank you Kayman. The need is for a new source code that Microsoft is
    currently developing but details are mostly secret. What is needed is to tie
    the internal safety of 9x (Windows 98 Second Edition) that has Disk Operating
    System as its underlying maintenance operating system that Vista lacks
    according to Chris Quirke, mvp with the outstanding external security of NT
    (New Technology that has its best showing so far in Vista) and these closed
    source technologies have been thankfully provided by Microsoft. Windows 98
    Second Edition may be unsupported but it is critical in my research for
    Microsoft and US-Cert. You bring these two closed source codes -- one
    consumer 9x (98SE) has the internal safety with the external security of NT
    (Vista) with the help of Unix/Linux open source technologies and it provides
    the ultimate safety and security solution for all. A good example of open
    source technologies that I like is Mozilla Firefox which even has 256 bit AES
    (Advanced Encryption Standard) within Windows 98 Second Edition. Happily, I
    have been running tests and seeing if people can hack into 98 Second Edition
    but so far all the hackers can do is denial of service errors to Internet
    Explorer and as shown in the previous example to VPN.

    BTW, forgive my ignorance and stupidity but what is LULA and explain better
    for my knowledge and others who may not have all the background experience
    expertise in the security industry within banking that you have Kayman.

    "Kayman" wrote:
    <!--coloro:blue--><span style="color:blue <!--/coloro-->
    > On Tue, 19 Aug 2008 03:17:29 -0700, Dan wrote:
    > <!--coloro:green--><span style="color:green <!--/coloro-->
    > > Thanks. I am using Windows 98 Second Edition on a daily basis now. I also
    > > use Windows XP Professional and have briefly tried Ubuntu Linux. I have
    > > Windows Vista Home Premium on another machine. I now know that Windows 98
    > > Second Edition is a safe internal alternative because the most the bad guys
    > > have been able to do to me so far is just the Denial of Service error and
    > > that just makes me laugh since whoever the hackers were of the APS network,
    > > they certainly appeared to know what they were looking for and how to get it
    > > quickly but with 98 Second Edition all they could do was the Denial of
    > > Service Error because 9x consumer source code is meant as a stand-a-lone
    > > source code and not meant to be networked with lots of other machines and
    > > that is why in my opinion it was a great lose for all of us not to have
    > > Windows 98 Second Edition support from Microsoft anymore. <!--colorc--><!--/colorc-->
    >
    > I do banking and trade in stocks etc. and wouldn't feel safe using an
    > unsupported and outdated operating system.
    > <!--coloro:green--><span style="color:green <!--/coloro-->
    > > Heck, all anybody has to do is check out secunia.com and research the
    > > vulnerabilities to see which software has vulnerabilities and which software
    > > has had their vulnerabilities patched. It is quite simple to do the research
    > > from the search box.<!--colorc--><!--/colorc-->
    >
    > Well, it's a PC! And provided the OS is kept up-to-date, use common sense,
    > a PC can be configured to withstand attacks.
    > <!--coloro:green--><span style="color:green <!--/coloro-->
    > > It now appears that by the end of the year --- many 3rd party solutions will
    > > be ending as well --- for Windows 98 Second Edition -- sad to say -- and I
    > > hope Microsoft will sell their 9x source code to DHS because we need all the
    > > help that we can get and it is such a loss not to take the full potential of
    > > an operating system that has its roots in Disk Operating System as a
    > > maintenance operating system at least until Microsoft is able to give us a
    > > viable replacement for the NT source code which users seem to forget was
    > > panned by early Microsoft Engineers as the inferior source code because of
    > > its lack of the internal safety of Disk Operating System.<!--colorc--><!--/colorc-->
    >
    > As I said, you can configure NT based OS to your advantage.
    > <!--coloro:green--><span style="color:green <!--/coloro-->
    > > The needed solution to the industry's problems are a combination of closed
    > > and open source technologies that are needed for the future. The industry
    > > has recognized the threat posed by DNS Pollution. Unfortunately, the concern
    > > lies now mainly with the consumer practicing the proper methods and not just
    > > enabling remote source code to be viewed by default, reading all emails in
    > > plain text only at least initially to understand the threat matrix, keeping
    > > their machines fully patched, etc. <!--colorc--><!--/colorc-->
    >
    > The technology is freely available.
    > <!--coloro:green--><span style="color:green <!--/coloro-->
    > > The needed solution, in my view for what it is worth, would be a NT external
    > > secure front (Vista), a 9x internal safety front (Windows 98 Second Edition)
    > > with open source solutions like Mozilla Firefox (2.0.x) with its 256 bit AES
    > > encryption even within Windows 98 Second Edition that Internet Explorer lacks
    > > with Windows XP Professional but has with Windows Vista Internet Explorer as
    > > well as using programs like SpywareBlaster that prevent baddies from even
    > > getting onto your computer. I think Gary S. Terhune, Chris Quirke, and
    > > Robear, all Microsoft MVP's are really good at understanding these areas.<!--colorc--><!--/colorc-->
    >
    > They sure do. But even they have different views with respect to computer
    > 'cum' Internet security and security related software. Sadly, not too many
    > advocating the use of LUA etc., oh well.
    >
    > Cheers :)
    > <!--colorc--><!--/colorc-->
     
  16. Dan

    Dan Guest

    Re: An ounce of prevention is worth a pound of cure

    It is my pleasure, BD and a view which few if any others fully share.
    However, Dan K's research into the DNS Poisoning has sparked my interest
    again in the safety and security debate of 9x, NT, and Linux/Unix and which
    is the best solution or combination of solutions (my view) to fully protect
    users on the 'Net from criminals who appear to be based first in China, then
    the U.S.A. and finally in Russia with the rest spread throughout the world.
    However, I say that with a grain of salt because that research is about 6-8
    years old now using Zone Alarm Professionals to determine where the hacks
    were coming from and then countries have the capabilities to set up numerous
    hidden and sheltered points within many other countries to try to mask their
    capabilities.

    The Truth is that it is only a matter of time with US-Cert and others on
    their case and the Spybot Networks being broken by continued research and the
    help of sans and doxpara professionals and of course all other interested
    individuals which does include Steve Riley, MSFT, of course, mvps and others
    who post in this newsgroup and others like 98 general. Thank goodness, for
    Microsoft and their willingness to host these public Microsoft newsgroups.

    "~BD~" wrote:
    <!--coloro:blue--><span style="color:blue <!--/coloro-->
    > Thanks for posting your view, Dan.
    >
    > BD
    >
    > --
    > "Dan" <Dan@discussions.microsoft.com> wrote in message
    > news:28EB1CE6-FCA4-4679-80D3-3E7C44F6BA21@microsoft.com...<!--coloro:green--><span style="color:green <!--/coloro-->
    > > MalWareBytes is a good product but Adaware SE just is terrible in my
    > > opinion
    > > now because of its false positives --- it destroyed my sister Kate's
    > > computer
    > > because of false positives and so I do not suggest using such an inferior
    > > and
    > > crappy product as Adaware SE. The rest of the suggestions on the web-site
    > > seem okay.
    > >
    > > "~BD~" wrote:
    > ><!--coloro:darkred--><span style="color:darkred <!--/coloro-->
    > >> Thanks Milo! (and Anteaus!)
    > >>
    > >> Another good site to explore here:-
    > >>
    > >>
    > >>
    > >> Dave
    > >>
    > >> --
    > >>
    > >> "Milo" <jfcoel@hotmail.com> wrote in message
    > >> news:43611A9A-09AE-4ABE-B3CE-B9352BE931B2@microsoft.com...
    > >> > try this site for Security/Safety Software
    > >> >
    > >> >

    > >> >
    > >> >

    > >> >
    > >> >
    > >> >
    > >> > "Anteaus" <Anteaus@discussions.microsoft.com> wrote in message
    > >> > news:D5DC6EDE-5EC4-4BA6-A203-05B8F1C3449C@microsoft.com...
    > >> >>
    > >> >> The point the OP makes about AV software is a very real one. AV
    > >> >> software
    > >> >> is
    > >> >> sold by way of 'push install' onto new computers, not by consumer
    > >> >> choice,
    > >> >> and
    > >> >> certainly not by quality ratings. In many cases the free offerings
    > >> >> ARE
    > >> >> better in every respect than the expensive, foisted ones.
    > >> >>
    > >> >> "~BD~" wrote:
    > >> >>
    > >> >> Yet it's possible to get legal,
    > >> >>> professional quality anti-virus and other protective software,
    > >> >>> absolutely
    > >> >>> free.
    > >> >>
    > >> >
    > >>
    > >>
    > >><!--colorc--><!--/colorc-->
    > > <!--colorc--><!--/colorc-->
    >
    >
    > <!--colorc--><!--/colorc-->
     
  17. ~BD~

    ~BD~ Guest

    Re: An ounce of prevention is worth a pound of cure

    We seem to be on the same side, Dan! [​IMG]

    I find your views both interesting and refreshing. If the 'gurus' - who know
    all the technical answers - cannot curb the activities of 'the bad guys', it
    will be the likes of you and me who might, just possibly, trip them up from
    time to time!

    Stick with it!

    Dave

    --
    "Dan" <Dan@discussions.microsoft.com> wrote in message
    news:B7F5A0EC-9707-4B20-B8E5-744C110F9C7B@microsoft.com...<!--coloro:blue--><span style="color:blue <!--/coloro-->
    > It is my pleasure, BD and a view which few if any others fully share.
    > However, Dan K's research into the DNS Poisoning has sparked my interest
    > again in the safety and security debate of 9x, NT, and Linux/Unix and
    > which
    > is the best solution or combination of solutions (my view) to fully
    > protect
    > users on the 'Net from criminals who appear to be based first in China,
    > then
    > the U.S.A. and finally in Russia with the rest spread throughout the
    > world.
    > However, I say that with a grain of salt because that research is about
    > 6-8
    > years old now using Zone Alarm Professionals to determine where the hacks
    > were coming from and then countries have the capabilities to set up
    > numerous
    > hidden and sheltered points within many other countries to try to mask
    > their
    > capabilities.
    >
    > The Truth is that it is only a matter of time with US-Cert and others on
    > their case and the Spybot Networks being broken by continued research and
    > the
    > help of sans and doxpara professionals and of course all other interested
    > individuals which does include Steve Riley, MSFT, of course, mvps and
    > others
    > who post in this newsgroup and others like 98 general. Thank goodness,
    > for
    > Microsoft and their willingness to host these public Microsoft newsgroups.
    >
    > "~BD~" wrote:
    ><!--coloro:green--><span style="color:green <!--/coloro-->
    >> Thanks for posting your view, Dan.
    >>
    >> BD
    >>
    >> --
    >> "Dan" <Dan@discussions.microsoft.com> wrote in message
    >> news:28EB1CE6-FCA4-4679-80D3-3E7C44F6BA21@microsoft.com...<!--coloro:darkred--><span style="color:darkred <!--/coloro-->
    >> > MalWareBytes is a good product but Adaware SE just is terrible in my
    >> > opinion
    >> > now because of its false positives --- it destroyed my sister Kate's
    >> > computer
    >> > because of false positives and so I do not suggest using such an
    >> > inferior
    >> > and
    >> > crappy product as Adaware SE. The rest of the suggestions on the
    >> > web-site
    >> > seem okay.
    >> >
    >> > "~BD~" wrote:
    >> >
    >> >> Thanks Milo! (and Anteaus!)
    >> >>
    >> >> Another good site to explore here:-
    >> >>
    >> >>
    >> >>
    >> >> Dave
    >> >>
    >> >> --
    >> >>
    >> >> "Milo" <jfcoel@hotmail.com> wrote in message
    >> >> news:43611A9A-09AE-4ABE-B3CE-B9352BE931B2@microsoft.com...
    >> >> > try this site for Security/Safety Software
    >> >> >
    >> >> >

    >> >> >
    >> >> >

    >> >> >
    >> >> >
    >> >> >
    >> >> > "Anteaus" <Anteaus@discussions.microsoft.com> wrote in message
    >> >> > news:D5DC6EDE-5EC4-4BA6-A203-05B8F1C3449C@microsoft.com...
    >> >> >>
    >> >> >> The point the OP makes about AV software is a very real one. AV
    >> >> >> software
    >> >> >> is
    >> >> >> sold by way of 'push install' onto new computers, not by consumer
    >> >> >> choice,
    >> >> >> and
    >> >> >> certainly not by quality ratings. In many cases the free offerings
    >> >> >> ARE
    >> >> >> better in every respect than the expensive, foisted ones.
    >> >> >>
    >> >> >> "~BD~" wrote:
    >> >> >>
    >> >> >> Yet it's possible to get legal,
    >> >> >>> professional quality anti-virus and other protective software,
    >> >> >>> absolutely
    >> >> >>> free.
    >> >> >>
    >> >> >
    >> >>
    >> >>
    >> >>
    >> ><!--colorc--><!--/colorc-->
    >>
    >>
    >><!--colorc--><!--/colorc-->
    > <!--colorc--><!--/colorc-->
     
  18. Dan

    Dan Guest

    Re: An ounce of prevention is worth a pound of cure

    Just remember and this applies to everyone "Never Give Up"

    "~BD~" wrote:
    <!--coloro:blue--><span style="color:blue <!--/coloro-->
    > We seem to be on the same side, Dan! [​IMG]
    >
    > I find your views both interesting and refreshing. If the 'gurus' - who know
    > all the technical answers - cannot curb the activities of 'the bad guys', it
    > will be the likes of you and me who might, just possibly, trip them up from
    > time to time!
    >
    > Stick with it!
    >
    > Dave
    >
    > --
    > "Dan" <Dan@discussions.microsoft.com> wrote in message
    > news:B7F5A0EC-9707-4B20-B8E5-744C110F9C7B@microsoft.com...<!--coloro:green--><span style="color:green <!--/coloro-->
    > > It is my pleasure, BD and a view which few if any others fully share.
    > > However, Dan K's research into the DNS Poisoning has sparked my interest
    > > again in the safety and security debate of 9x, NT, and Linux/Unix and
    > > which
    > > is the best solution or combination of solutions (my view) to fully
    > > protect
    > > users on the 'Net from criminals who appear to be based first in China,
    > > then
    > > the U.S.A. and finally in Russia with the rest spread throughout the
    > > world.
    > > However, I say that with a grain of salt because that research is about
    > > 6-8
    > > years old now using Zone Alarm Professionals to determine where the hacks
    > > were coming from and then countries have the capabilities to set up
    > > numerous
    > > hidden and sheltered points within many other countries to try to mask
    > > their
    > > capabilities.
    > >
    > > The Truth is that it is only a matter of time with US-Cert and others on
    > > their case and the Spybot Networks being broken by continued research and
    > > the
    > > help of sans and doxpara professionals and of course all other interested
    > > individuals which does include Steve Riley, MSFT, of course, mvps and
    > > others
    > > who post in this newsgroup and others like 98 general. Thank goodness,
    > > for
    > > Microsoft and their willingness to host these public Microsoft newsgroups.
    > >
    > > "~BD~" wrote:
    > ><!--coloro:darkred--><span style="color:darkred <!--/coloro-->
    > >> Thanks for posting your view, Dan.
    > >>
    > >> BD
    > >>
    > >> --
    > >> "Dan" <Dan@discussions.microsoft.com> wrote in message
    > >> news:28EB1CE6-FCA4-4679-80D3-3E7C44F6BA21@microsoft.com...
    > >> > MalWareBytes is a good product but Adaware SE just is terrible in my
    > >> > opinion
    > >> > now because of its false positives --- it destroyed my sister Kate's
    > >> > computer
    > >> > because of false positives and so I do not suggest using such an
    > >> > inferior
    > >> > and
    > >> > crappy product as Adaware SE. The rest of the suggestions on the
    > >> > web-site
    > >> > seem okay.
    > >> >
    > >> > "~BD~" wrote:
    > >> >
    > >> >> Thanks Milo! (and Anteaus!)
    > >> >>
    > >> >> Another good site to explore here:-
    > >> >>
    > >> >>
    > >> >>
    > >> >> Dave
    > >> >>
    > >> >> --
    > >> >>
    > >> >> "Milo" <jfcoel@hotmail.com> wrote in message
    > >> >> news:43611A9A-09AE-4ABE-B3CE-B9352BE931B2@microsoft.com...
    > >> >> > try this site for Security/Safety Software
    > >> >> >
    > >> >> >

    > >> >> >
    > >> >> >

    > >> >> >
    > >> >> >
    > >> >> >
    > >> >> > "Anteaus" <Anteaus@discussions.microsoft.com> wrote in message
    > >> >> > news:D5DC6EDE-5EC4-4BA6-A203-05B8F1C3449C@microsoft.com...
    > >> >> >>
    > >> >> >> The point the OP makes about AV software is a very real one. AV
    > >> >> >> software
    > >> >> >> is
    > >> >> >> sold by way of 'push install' onto new computers, not by consumer
    > >> >> >> choice,
    > >> >> >> and
    > >> >> >> certainly not by quality ratings. In many cases the free offerings
    > >> >> >> ARE
    > >> >> >> better in every respect than the expensive, foisted ones.
    > >> >> >>
    > >> >> >> "~BD~" wrote:
    > >> >> >>
    > >> >> >> Yet it's possible to get legal,
    > >> >> >>> professional quality anti-virus and other protective software,
    > >> >> >>> absolutely
    > >> >> >>> free.
    > >> >> >>
    > >> >> >
    > >> >>
    > >> >>
    > >> >>
    > >> >
    > >>
    > >>
    > >><!--colorc--><!--/colorc-->
    > > <!--colorc--><!--/colorc-->
    >
    >
    > <!--colorc--><!--/colorc-->
     
  19. Re: An ounce of prevention is worth a pound of cure

    From: "~BD~" <~BD~@nospam.invalid>




    Please stop changing the subject of the post within any given thread !


    --
    Dave

    Multi-AV -
     

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